Debian et al: was re: Mandriva

[Collins Richey]

[ snippety snip ]

On 5/14/05, Mike Reinehr <cmr at amsent.com> wrote:
> On Saturday 14 May 2005 11:26 am, Collins Richey wrote:
> > Quotes from Collins, Lonni, and David in that order
> >
> > > > > As I mentioned in an earlier post, ManDrivel. I'm not likely to try
> > > > > it. Free is where it's at for me, and for the foreseeable future free
> > > > > RedRat (read: CentOS) since my work is based on RHEL releases.
> > >>
> > >> must be nice.  why can't everyone just wise up and use RH/FC to make my
> > >> life easier?  ;)
> >
> > < Because Debian derivatives are so much easier to maintain (no RPM
> > < dependency hell), never require reinstalls on "upgrades" (which are
> > < continuous anyway), and with over 18,000 packages, building from
> > < source is rare.  And the Debian packages just work together and rarely
> > < have bugs (they're rather anal about that).
> >
> > < The above has been the norm for many years.
> >
> > On CentOS I got the mplayer stuff and codecs using the Dag
> > repos, and it just worked (tm), but when I tried the recommended
> > packages for Ubuntu/Debian, I got an mplayer that would work for some
> > file types and not for others. 
> 
>         First, there definitely is a "Debian" way of doing things. :-) But, there are
> some good sources of help to get started: http://www.debian.org/doc/
> In particular, the Installation Manual, the Reference and the Policy Manual.
> But, after two or three years, I'm still learning.
> 

At some point I'll give it a try again; too little time right now. My
Ubuntu install is still safely tucked away on an unused partition.

>         Second, IIRC, and I haven't done this in a while, mplayer format support is
> compiled in and you have to have all the libraries available at compile time.
> So, if something comes along later you're just out of luck, without going
> back and compiling a newer version. I'm guessing your difficulty with a
> binary version derives from the choices made by whomever compiled it.
> 

Doubtless true, but the equally binary stuff I got off the shelf for
CentOS / RHEL / Fedora (can't remember which) "just works", so it can
be done. Mplayer has always been a touch and go proposition. I went
through several releases on gentoo in the late 2.5.x early 2.6.x days
before I got a workable version.

>         You might want to consider Libranet (they just released a brand new version,
> 3.0). It's Debian-based and comes with virtually everything that you'd ever
> want -- 5 CD's or a 3.2GB DVD image. Plus, IceWm is their default window
> manager. (They also include a half-dozen others including, of course, KDE &
> GNome.)
> 
>         A couple other nice features are a really good installer and the ability to
> select from one of a half-dozen installation profiles: minimal, server,
> desktop, etc.
> 

Yeah, but I'm really into free distributions. Also, how does Libranet
stack up in terms of upgrading from one release to the next?


> > Like most large corporations, my employer is a firm believer in
> > licenses (someone to kick around) with large suppliers,
> 
>         Libranet is commercial, with paid installation support, and ongoing support
> available from a number of sources.

True enough, but it's probably not enough to convince my employer to
switch off procedures developed over years with RedRat.


> >
> > As a final gripe. I have not bothered to join any Debian mailing
> > lists, but I've heard from others that they have a positive aversion
> > to newbies, and  that gets my dander up. 

>         True. I haven't ever posted to the Debian User List. The most I've done is
> Google it for help. The few times I haven't been able to figure something
> out, I've come to this list. :-)

Yep, this list is the best, and my local LUGs (Denver and Boulder) run
a very close second. The CentOS list is also a very sound source of
help.

In case you haven't guessed, I'm not selling anything, and I certainly
have nothing against Debian or any other distro.

CentOS fits because of the work connection, and it's mostly an
effortless proposition to keep up a relatively modern base. There
aren't any critical bugs for me, a workstation user. Server users with
RAID setups, OTOH, seem to have a little more difficulty getting the
RedRat stuff to work with the myriad controllers and RAID setups, and
RedRat will probably never offer anything except roll your own for the
vast numbers of folks who don't want EXT3. Of course, the CentOS folks
are working on an alternative kernel and support in their PLUS repo
for the functions that RedRat omitted. I'm running that kernel now
with no problems on my workstation, but I'm not leaving the EXT3 camp.

OTOH, my lifetime gripe about the RedRat bunch is that they have the
annoying habit (like M$ <grin>) of going out of their way to change
the rules of the game and to make upgrading difficult. An example: LVM
support. The wise-A??s decided to ship a partially crippled, still in
development LVM2 in place of the older but works AOK LVM. On the
released version of RHEL4/CentOS4/Fedora3 no tool (the last I knew) is
provided for expanding an EXT3 partition. The excellent e2fsadm
utility (which I use regularly for our RH9 systems) was dropped in
favor of Watch This Space! [Shudder] It doesn't give me a warm fuzzy
thinking what might happen with FC4 and then RHEL5.

If I were doing this for myself only, I'd still be running gentoo or
making the effort to learn the ropes with a debian system.

-- 
 Collins
       When I saw the Iraqi people voting three weeks ago, 8 million of them, 
       it was the start of a new Arab world.... The Berlin Wall has fallen. 
               - Lebanese Druze leader Walid Jumblatt