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<span>Tim White wrote:</span><br>
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<pre wrap="">Thanks Eric. The fresh thinking and new ideas are appreciated. This seems (at least to me) to be an out-of-the-box idea, worthy of discussion. Prior to potentially formally raising the idea with the clubs, I suggest we first discuss it amongst ourselves live as a body, to (1) collectively understand and consider the issues and pros & cons, (2) determine what we might be willing to do in the way of support (financial and otherwise) of a hypothetical implementation and (3) determine how we would approach the clubs, if we were to decide to do so.
Some initial thoughts:
1. If it's dependent on solid wifi connectivity, this could be a problem at some club locations. </pre>
</blockquote>
Not sure about connectivity at the small clubs, but
SBC/EBC/Mercercrest/Mercer Island/Alki all have reliable wifi. Not sure
on UW. Can always tether via a mobile phone at UW if necessary. No
experience with the other clubs like Halcyon, LeEtta King, Emerald, and
Des Moines.<br>
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<pre wrap="">
2. There is a finite probability that a tablet will lock up or otherwise fail; are there established protocols for how a director handles such a situation (e.g. throw out all boards for all rounds played against robots and subsequent rounds revert to sit outs)?</pre>
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No clue :) While a tablet failing seems very unlikely (I've worked with a
variety for years without an issue), there might be a problem if the
battery on one runs out and it isn't convenient to recharge at the
table. It seems like the directors would have a few choices (mark the
rest as NP, throw them out for two) but not sure if we should recommend
something or let them make a decision if it ever comes up.<br>
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<pre wrap="">
3. Patrons of some clubs are more likely to be experienced and comfortable with electronic play and play against robots than those of other clubs. I can envision that at some U446 clubs many players would not be at all comfortable. Would we insist that club managers poll to get data on players' interest/willingness before we consider or commit to investment/support for implementation? Would we support investment/implementation if only one club were interested? </pre>
</blockquote>
Some way of understanding interest or of trialing this occasionally to
get feedback might be a good idea. Maybe setting this up for a day game
or two at SBC and/or EBC and then getting feedback might be an early
step to see what people think?<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:D5CEA222-EAA4-48B6-9745-3301A82B192F@gmail.com"
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<pre wrap="">
4. Robots (on BBO at least) can be "gamed" by live players in some bidding or play circumstances. Players experienced in play with/against robots could thus gain an advantage -- which might even affect the results for the entire field in a game with overall awards where NS and EW results are integrated -- especially if the boards they play vs robots are not "flat."</pre>
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I think the robots are generally better than people give them credit
for. The "best hand" robot games are bad in my opinion because you have
more information, can count out to know 100% where an honor is, and
psyching is safer. While 2 robots might make mistakes that humans would
not, I wouldn't be surprised if they performed better than your average
opponent at a club game. Clubs mentioned marking them as not eligible
for this reason - otherwise they would take masterpoints from the
humans.<br>
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<pre wrap="">
5. Some might have a concern with security. While we would like to think all players are 100% ethical, the absence of live OPPs at the table might invite inappropriate behavior on the part of a particular pair. For example, apart from the possibility of UI such as visual cues across the table (which could especially be a problem when there is a playing director), players self-alert on BBO against live OPPs. I have no idea whether self alerts would actually be processed/used by robots' algorithms, but if they are then how would players' conformance with a self-alerting requirement be policed?</pre>
</blockquote>
Not sure on this without firsthand experience. People usually mention
putting the robot table near the director table but I'm not sure how
that would apply at clubs like Mercercrest where there are playing
directors. Self alerts are irrelevant, robots don't parse them or pay
attention to them. Main thing is people transmitting UI without a human
to let the director know, but lots of UI goes unreported anyway.
Hopefully being near a director or at least in a table next to other
humans would put a damper on attempts to intentionally transmit UI for
most people if not everyone.<br>
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<pre wrap="">
6. This concept might be of particular interest/value at games that especially target newer players, i.e. UW and limited games at clubs elsewhere, where it could be advantageous to get inexperienced players as many boards of play as possible. </pre>
</blockquote>
Yep, or at smaller games with longer sitouts. I hate a 2 board sitout
and frequently scheme to avoid one; a 4 or 5 board sitout would be
brutal.<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:D5CEA222-EAA4-48B6-9745-3301A82B192F@gmail.com"
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<pre wrap="">
7. Before discussing this live as a group, I would like to have insight as to where and how many clubs have implemented it, how it has gone, and a sense of associated successes/failures.</pre>
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Will try to get an idea on this. <br>
<blockquote cite="mid:D5CEA222-EAA4-48B6-9745-3301A82B192F@gmail.com"
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<pre wrap="">
Tim
On Jan 17, 2018, at 7:03 PM, Eric Sieg <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:easieg@gmail.com"><easieg@gmail.com></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite"><pre wrap="">Hi all,
I've heard people mention robot fill ins more frequently in random conversations. Apparently this is becoming more popular where instead of having to sit out 2-5 boards, you still get to play them but it is against robots.
BW link here: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://bridgewinners.com/article/view/no-more-sit-outs-at-our-bridge-club/">https://bridgewinners.com/article/view/no-more-sit-outs-at-our-bridge-club/</a>
Instructions on how to run it here: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.bridgewebs.com//pcba/Robots%20for%20Half%20Tables.pdf">http://www.bridgewebs.com//pcba/Robots%20for%20Half%20Tables.pdf</a>
There was also an article in the July 2017 Bridge Bulletin
Is this something that we should explore interest in at the clubs? Maybe buying two tablets (Kindle HD 8 is $80/tablet on Amazon) for interested clubs and then helping them get set up to do this would be a way we can help them out.
Curious about what other people think and might have heard. If we wanted to do something as a board I'm fine with putting in the time to help clubs with setup, but mostly just looking to spark conversation/get people thoughts/etc for the moment.
Eric
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