[SBU Board] Revised Harvest Sectional flyer - for board review ASAP

Wed Jun 5 14:58:39 PDT 2019

I am in agreement with the consensus reached during this discussion.

I suggest that it might be useful for the board to develop a "catalog" of
events that we might offer at our events, to include details such as we've
arrived at for the Qualifying Pairs.  Important details would include when
entries are sold, how carryovers work, etc.

I volunteer to work with other board members (Eric? Mike? Ray? JC?) to
develop this catalog, starting with events we have hosted or will be
hosting in the remainder of 2019.

--David D.

On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 2:52 PM Raymond Miller <raysmiller at gmail.com> wrote:

> I checked with matt about any differences in the two ways of running the
> events and he confirms that there is none. Thanks for all the good work JC.
>
> On Wed, Jun 5, 2019, 2:28 PM JC Chupack <jc.chupack at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Works for me re: flyer.  I'll fix tonight, send out the modified version
>> for re-review, new ETA to send to ACBL is tomorrow evening then.
>>
>> FWIW, I asked a TD friend and they said you can sell the entries either
>> way (so it's also possible it's been inconsistent in approach over the
>> years depending on who the DIC is, hence differing memories?).  Selling
>> them as a 2-session is largely for convenience. But, if you sell it as a
>> 2-session event, then the pairs who are eliminated cannot get refunds if
>> they don't want to play consolation pairs. They are then forced into the
>> consolation event.
>>
>> The fact that we've never heard a complaint would indicate that the way
>> we've historically worded this on the flyer and handled it on the game day
>> works, whatever that was.
>>
>> For my part, as the person writing it up, I would never have guessed the
>> forced-consolation was the case and like I said, the folks I talked to had
>> differing memories. I had said during discussion on the motion that I
>> didn't really care a ton either way on the event; I voted against it just
>> on the basis that it was unnecessary complexity and doesn't favor B/C
>> players.  I'm more strongly opposed if we're forcing people into the
>> consolation; I'd prefer we treat it like a KO.  We don't need a re-vote
>> now, unless the board feels like this changes their view on including the
>> event (and it sounds like it doesn't).
>>
>> --JC
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 1:06 PM Tom Land via Sbuboard <
>> sbuboard at mailman.celestial.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm on board with that.
>>> Tom
>>>
>>> In a message dated 6/5/2019 1:00:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>>> pattimcbridge at gmail.com writes:
>>>
>>> I agree Ann
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 11:47 AM Ann Romeo <annromeo at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I have played in the qualifier for several years, and have always 'paid'
>>> for two sessions at the start of the event.  As any two-session event, I
>>> have my seat assignment for the second session posted.
>>> I am under the impression that if one did not play in the first session,
>>> one can buy into the consolation pairs (the second session), but everyone
>>> who plays in the qualifier buys for both sessions--you can chose not to
>>> play in the consolation, but you do not get a refund!
>>> This is not like a KO....
>>>
>>>
>>> Ann Romeo
>>> Personal email: annromeo at gmail.com
>>> Local home: 206-526-0871
>>> Work email: Ann.Romeo at ORCInternational.com
>>> Work direct dial: 212-463-6331
>>> My cell: 425-615-1413 (text ok)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 10:33 AM JC Chupack <jc.chupack at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> If we are forcing people to pay for 2-sessions even though ~half of them
>>> won't get to play a true 2-session event, I'm strongly opposed to this
>>> event format. But, I don't think that's the case. For NABC events that have
>>> qualifiers, you don't have to pay for the whole event to play the first
>>> day...you buy a new entry if you qualify (just like a KO round), so I have
>>> trouble believing that is the structure being applied at a sectional.
>>>
>>> For what it's worth, I looked back to 2015, 2016, and 2017 flyers. We've
>>> never treated the qual/final/consolation as a 2-session event on the
>>> flyers. The consolation was noted as a single session event.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 10:09 AM Mike Christensen <quirk_1 at hotmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe we have always purchased a 2
>>> session entry at the time of purchase for the qualifying pairs.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I believe that if you wish to be eligible for the 2nd session of a 2
>>> session event, you have to purchase a 2 session entry at the time of
>>> purchase.  The consolation pairs is not a separate event.  It is for those
>>> that purchased a 2 session entry and did not qualify.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You can decline to play in the 2nd session, qualified or not, doesn’t
>>> matter, inform the director and they will make adjustments as needed, but
>>> you do not get your money back(same as a normal 2 session pairs event) and
>>> you certainly do not get to make that decision after you did or did not
>>> qualify.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You can purchase a single session entry at the time of purchase, but you
>>> do not get to play in the finals, regardless if you qualified and change
>>> your mind.  You can buy into the consolation pairs if you want, as can
>>> anyone.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>> Windows 10
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* Sbuboard <sbuboard-bounces+quirk_1=
>>> hotmail.com at mailman.celestial.com> on behalf of JC Chupack <
>>> jc.chupack at gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 5, 2019 9:33:13 AM
>>> *To:* Seattle ACBL Unit Board
>>> *Subject:* Re: [SBU Board] Revised Harvest Sectional flyer - for board
>>> review ASAP
>>>
>>> Carryover noted. I had missed that on the prior events and will correct
>>> to:
>>> (About half the field will qualify, up to two board carry-over)
>>>
>>> The Consolation pairs is a separate single session event. I'm *not *okay
>>> changing the wording on that.  Open pairs participants are not required to
>>> play in, nor pay for, the consolation pairs if they fail to qualify. (I'm
>>> not sure forcing them to enter it is even an option allowed by the event
>>> type.)
>>>
>>> I'd like to hear opinions on Monty's suggestion re: changing the title
>>> of the Swiss?  I'm okay with whatever change we make to the title...I'm all
>>> for making as low-confusion as possible.
>>>
>>> JC
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 4, 2019 at 8:16 PM Ann Romeo <annromeo at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> yes the consolation game is stratified.
>>> Ann Romeo
>>> Personal email: annromeo at gmail.com
>>> Local home: 206-526-0871
>>> Work email: Ann.Romeo at ORCInternational.com
>>> Work direct dial: 212-463-6331
>>> My cell: 425-615-1413 (text ok)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 4, 2019 at 6:00 PM Raymond Miller <raysmiller at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Agree with Mike
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 4, 2019, 5:11 PM Mike Christensen <quirk_1 at hotmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Qualifying pairs traditionally has a 2 board carry over.
>>>
>>> Evidence
>>> http://live.acbl.org/event/1710186/2801/2/recap
>>> <https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flive.acbl.org%2Fevent%2F1710186%2F2801%2F2%2Frecap&data=02%7C01%7C%7C8833688b65654231320608d6e9d399f4%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636953492363442053&sdata=kA0klrK5fnjSXrb7MAsWOw6qaOfFdP88yUx0%2BIGmiHY%3D&reserved=0>
>>>
>>> Also, the director will often qualify enough pairs to get to a good
>>> movement, which is generally more but can occasionally be slightly less
>>> than half the field.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Suggest changing
>>> Open Pairs Qualifier (50% of the field will qualify for the finals, no
>>> carry-over)
>>> to
>>> Open Pairs Qualifier (About half the field will qualify for the finals,
>>> two board carry-over)
>>>
>>> And to emphasis that the consolation pairs entry is included with the
>>> qualification pairs buy in
>>>
>>> Stratified Consolation Pairs (single session)
>>> to
>>> Stratified Consolation Pairs (single session buy in ok)
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* Sbuboard <sbuboard-bounces+quirk_1=
>>> hotmail.com at mailman.celestial.com> on behalf of JC Chupack <
>>> jc.chupack at gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 4, 2019 4:55 PM
>>> *To:* Seattle ACBL Unit Board
>>> *Subject:* [SBU Board] Revised Harvest Sectional flyer - for board
>>> review ASAP
>>>
>>> *Mike & Monty* - please check closely & let me know if you would like
>>> any changes. *(Monty confirmed he had volunteered as Lane's replacement
>>> for this one. Thanks, Monty!)*
>>>
>>> *All board members* - please help double-check for typos.
>>>
>>> *Note to all* - I called Sunday's event a "Stratified Matchpoint (BAM)
>>> Swiss" instead of just calling it a BAM Swiss, to try to reduce confusion
>>> with the less-popular BAM Teams event, per someone's (not sure who?
>>> apologies for lack of credit) suggestion from last night. I have no idea if
>>> the ACBL will be okay with that wording or not, but we'll see after we
>>> submit. From some casual chat with TDs, it seems like it should be okay.
>>>
>>> *Please review ASAP. Barring any responses telling me otherwise, I will
>>> submit to the ACBL tomorrow evening.*
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> JC Chupack
>>> * Seattle ACBL Unit 446
>>> <https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bridgeinseattle.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C8833688b65654231320608d6e9d399f4%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636953492363452058&sdata=JTxTzVZi6W0VXZq0t97meWvypAqpDEdMj5Gw3J1JCGY%3D&reserved=0>
>>> Vice President, Electronic Contact, & Publicity Chair
>>> * Sr. Product Manager, Softlines Ad Tech, Amazon Advertising
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>>>
>>> --
>>> JC Chupack
>>> * Seattle ACBL Unit 446
>>> <https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bridgeinseattle.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C8833688b65654231320608d6e9d399f4%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636953492363512108&sdata=TutlNYXWrPMnx5rEvOcgAP%2Bo%2FKA8SbqrIitGkcuFxS8%3D&reserved=0>
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>>> * Sr. Product Manager, Softlines Ad Tech, Amazon Advertising
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>>>
>>> --
>>> JC Chupack
>>> * Seattle ACBL Unit 446 <http://www.bridgeinseattle.org> Vice
>>> President, Electronic Contact, & Publicity Chair
>>> * Sr. Product Manager, Softlines Ad Tech, Amazon Advertising
>>> <http://advertising.amazon.com>
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>>> --
>>> *Patti McCallum*
>>> *To have a full deck later in life - **Play Bridge*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *ACBL accredited teacherStar teacher award Certified directorHome
>>> 206-789-4742Cell 206-910-7075*
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>>
>>
>> --
>> JC Chupack
>> * Seattle ACBL Unit 446 <http://www.bridgeinseattle.org> Vice President,
>> Electronic Contact, & Publicity Chair
>> * Sr. Product Manager, Softlines Ad Tech, Amazon Advertising
>> <http://advertising.amazon.com>
>>
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