Debian et al: was re: Mandriva

[Matthew Carpenter]

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Collins Richey wrote:

> Quotes from Collins, Lonni, and David in that order
>
>>>> As I mentioned in an earlier post, ManDrivel. I'm not likely
>>>> to try it. Free is where it's at for me, and for the
>>>> foreseeable future free RedRat (read: CentOS) since my work
>>>> is based on RHEL releases.
>>>
>>> must be nice. why can't everyone just wise up and use RH/FC to
>>> make my life easier? ;)
>
>
> < Because Debian derivatives are so much easier to maintain (no RPM
> < dependency hell), never require reinstalls on "upgrades" (which
> are < continuous anyway), and with over 18,000 packages, building
> from < source is rare. And the Debian packages just work together
> and rarely < have bugs (they're rather anal about that).
>
> < The above has been the norm for many years.
>
> Sigh, Debian again. I've recently tried Ubuntu again, and I'm
> rather well impressed, but I still don't understand the Debian
> setup (double sigh). Ubuntu has a nice howto for getting various
> common programs that are not part of the standard release. Works
> pretty slick, ugh almost. On CentOS I got the mplayer stuff and
> codecs using the Dag repos, and it just worked (tm), but when I
> tried the recommended packages for Ubuntu/Debian, I got an mplayer
> that would work for some file types and not for others. Few things
> piss me off more than getting an email from friends with some sort
> of Windows crappy media format (TM) that I can't play on Linux.
> That happens seldom with the mplayer I have on CentOS.

It seldom happens for me as well...  But then I have installed the
various packages which contain the codecs.  Like w32codecs and
libdvdcss2 and xvid.  The first two are available both from Debian's
Sarge repo or from the Ubuntu-Backports repository
(http://backports.ubuntuforums.org/backports hoary-extras main
restricted universe multiverse).

Ctrl-F -> codec   -> Name and Description -> Search  
in Synaptic.

>
> Also, a current peeve, since I run IceWm as my "desktop" (please,
> let's not do the wm vs. desktop discussion again) of choice, I was
> not able to find a deb package for bbrun which is one of the
> essentials with IceWm or any "desktop" that does not provide a
> "run" function since I don't like updating menus every five
> minutes. I know, why don't I just run XFCE? Probably because IceWm
> is a little lighter weight (starts up quicker) and I don't need a
> file manager and session management stuff.

Sorry, can't help you there.  Grab that on from RPM and run Alien on it?

>
> Also, the RPM hell of years ago (pure RPM distros) is pretty much
> gone with yum or the apt for rpm stuff. I hear that the apt for RPM
> stuff is poorly maintained. I haven't had to chase a dependancy
> (I've had to chase a few packages) since I put up CentOS. The
> question is still outstanding whether I will be able to upgrade
> from CentOS4 to CentOS5 in a few years. The way in which RedRat
> screws around with things in Fedora makes me doubt it. Also RedRat
> has a habit of choosing not to support things that are a standard
> elsewhere - xfs and other filesystems, other important kernel
> functionality, and xfce are good examples. CentOS is making
> available a plus repository (and of course there's Dag), but the
> RedRat (CentOS) base is a bit slim for my tastes.

Yes, it does seem to be turning around a bit.  I'm still noticing
quite a cultural difference between Free distros and Corporate
distros.  Some good on both sides, but I'm finding the Free guys much
more refreshing and hope-inspiring... and willing to accept my help
and input.

>
> Like most large corporations, my employer is a firm believer in
> licenses (someone to kick around) with large suppliers, RedRat in
> this case. They wouldn't touch Debian or CentOS on a bet even
> though they never use the RedRat support that they pay for. They
> also pay (through the nose) for ClearCase and SlickEdit. That's not
> going to change. Even the choice of server hardware is based on
> less than logical decisions. Someone higher up in the food chain
> doesn't like how the Dell rack mount cases open, so rumor is we'll
> be switching to HP!
>
My employer is interested in certification (eg. Oracle
Certification).  This seem so limit the playing field to SLES and RHEL.

> The one thing no one can match (gentoo is trying) is the massive
> number of packages available with Debian.

Can't argue that.  And their packaging system is interesting.  I'm
still a virgin, but plan on changing that soon as I plot out my first
.deb need.  It'll be packaging our vpn client install, which has
proprietary info.

>
> As a final gripe. I have not bothered to join any Debian mailing
> lists, but I've heard from others that they have a positive
> aversion to newbies, and that gets my dander up. Also, Debian
> being more popular than some distros, I'm sure the traffic volume
> is higher than I would prefer.

That's why we're here.  Google can crawl the troll-boards and I'll go
to the almighty Google if I need help.  :)

- --
Matthew Carpenter
matt at eisgr.com                          http://www.eisgr.com/

Enterprise Information Systems
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* Security Consulting, Incident Handling & Forensics
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