Making an RPM Distribution play nicely with ./configure && make && make install packages

Mon May 17 12:00:19 PDT 2004

On Fri, 2004-03-05 at 22:47, Tim Wunder wrote:
> On 3/5/2004 4:03 PM, I believe that Roger Oberholtzer wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 2004-03-05 at 21:12, Tim Wunder wrote:
> > 
> >>On 3/5/2004 2:07 PM, I believe that Roger Oberholtzer wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>On Fri, 2004-03-05 at 18:14, Tim Wunder wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>On 3/5/2004 11:03 AM, I believe that Roger Oberholtzer wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 02:19:35 +1100
> >>>>>James McDonald <james at jamesmcdonald.id.au> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>I use Redhat Fedora Core 1. I have installed apt4rpm and done the usual 
> >>>>>>apt-get upgrade etc. So once you get to that stage you then have to 
> >>>>>>compile from source to get 'the latest'.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Typically I also install packages that I don't bother to role into an 
> >>>>>>rpm but they are required by other components I want to install via rpm 
> >>>>>>/ apt-get.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>How do you tell apt-get / rpm to either ignore that it can't see the 
> >>>>>>package in it's database or update the rpm database with the package 
> >>>>>>despite it wasn't installed via rpm?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>gentoo ... Gentoo ... GENTOO
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>I'm fairly ignorant on other package management systems used by non-rpm 
> >>>>distros, slackware, gentoo, debian. I'm fairly familiar with how rpm 
> >>>>works and believe apt to be similar, a database tracks what's installed. 
> >>>>Is gentoo different? Slackware?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Gentoo deals with dependencies very well. It uses sandboxes to make
> >>>things so it ALWAYS knows what will be installed, not depending on a
> >>>list or makefile. Also, it compiles from source on your system. This
> >>>really helps lessen library conflicts. If I wanted the latest  firefin,
> >>>I would type:
> >>>
> >>>	emerge firebird
> >>>
> >>>It will get all needed parts that are not installed as part of doing
> >>>this. I need not worry. It also has a concept of stable and non-stable
> >>>releases. You can decide what you want. It you are curious if anything
> >>>you have installed has a newer version, you would:
> >>>
> >>>	emerge rsync		(update concept of what is 'out there')
> >>>
> >>>	emerge -up world	(tell me what is new. But don't do 
> >>>					anything about it. Remove the 
> >>>					-p and it will update.)
> >>>
> >>>'world' is what you have already installed. Not everything out there.
> >>>
> >>>It works quite well. Since it is compiled locally, my preferences are
> >>>used. So, if I want any packages that use ALSA to have that enabled, I
> >>>set 'alsa' once in a global config file. Each package checks these to
> >>>see how to set flags. So, the maintainer of the package makes the
> >>>connection between Gentoo's variables and what the specific package
> >>>wants to make that happen. I need not sort that out. Everything you have
> >>>installed is compiled how you want it, not how it was made for some RPM.
> >>>Still, the package's config method is used. Gentoo does not make a new
> >>>compilation system for each package. That would be a real drag. Instead,
> >>>it maps your wished to the package.
> >>>
> >>
> >>But as I read this, it still seems like it depends on a packager, "the 
> >>maintainer of the package makes the connection between Gentoo's 
> >>variables and what the specific package wants to make that happen."
> > 
> > 
> > Yes it does. But the package is a script. So you could choose to change
> > to suit.I have never had to do this,
> > 
> > 
> >>And I don't see where I can mangage multiple versions of a package like 
> >>I can with rpm.
> > 
> > 
> > Yep. In emerge-speak they are called slots. 
> > 
> > 
> >>Lemme throw another example out there:
> >>I follow the gnucash project fairly closely. I run 1.8.8, which is the 
> >>current stable release, for my day-to-day use. I also like to have 
> >>compiled and installed, the 1.8.x branch, and the HEAD branch from CVS.
> >>I have two scripts that run perodically (a couple times per week.) One 
> >>pulls down the 1.8.x branch, compiles it, and installs it via RPM (well, 
> >>checkinstall,) the other does the same with HEAD. They get different 
> >>names when installed and yum/apt/rpm are all fine with it. Nothing gets 
> >>in the way of anything else. They're all separate. If I want to 
> >>uninstall the HEAD, or 1.8x branch CVS copies, I just rpm -e <insert 
> >>correct package name here> and I'm done. If I want to back rev from a 
> >>bad HEAD install, I rpm -e..., then rpm -i... and I'm done.
> >>Can this be similarly done with Gentoo's package manager?
> > 
> > 
> > I guess that depends in part on the package itself. Some developers
> > insist that things be in a specific place. Short of changing the source
> > code you are not going to make it work. I do know that Gentoo supports
> > many features in this area that I do not use. I would be surprised if
> > Gentoo did not support this type of thing. At any given time, for any
> > given package, there are always multiple versions available. Including
> > old versions, new versions and stable versions.
> > 
> > Check out http://packages.gentoo.org/search/?sstring=gnucash for the
> > current gnucash for Gentoo. BTW, note that Gentoo is available for
> > numerous CPUs.
> > 
> > 
> >
> 
> Thanks for the info. Did a little surfing on the projects at gentoo.org, 
> and it looks like it's reasonably do-able. They have a project for 
> installing multiple versions of KDE:
> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/desktop/kde/index.xml
> 
> I'd just have to figure out how that's done and incorporate that into 
> gnucash. I'd also probly need to have /usr on a separate partition, 
> since it looks like they put everything there...
> 
> Gentoo is starting to look a little more interesting. Perhaps my next 
> experiment will have to involve trying that out...hmmm, I just cleared 
> off 15 GB's on an IBM R40 laptop, that might be a good place to play...

I have not used it (yet) but Gentoo now supports a nice feature
(http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/releng/catalyst/index.xml) wherin you
decide what makes up your distro, and Gentoo makes one for you. Up to a
live CD it you want. I know this sounds like LFS (Linux from Scratch),
but Gentoo's setup uses the same tools you use to make your system when
making another. I think that Gentoo2004 is built this way. We use Gentoo
as a diskless OS for a VME-based PC and will soon try to see how little
we can make Gentoo this way. 

> 
> Regards,
> Tim
> 
> 
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