OT: Here we go again ...

[Kurt Wall]

Quoth Collins Richey:
> On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:34:28 -0500
> "David A. Bandel" <david at pananix.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 07:21:25 -0500
> > Michael Hipp <Michael at hipp.com> wrote:
> > 
> > [snip]
> > > 
> > > But I'm dreaming again. If that flagship of New Americanism (Dept. of 
> > > Homeland Implosion) can't see it, then likely will few others.
> > 
> > You're scary.  Is this what Americans (US Citizens in this context)
> > think of this Homeland Security thing?  If so, holy fsck.
> > 
> > Homeland Security, since its inception, has looked and sounded like a
> > new Nazi SS.  I didn't server 20 years in the US Military to have the US
> > turned into a police state, but it looks more and more like that every
> > day.
> > 
> > To wit:
> > The feds had been after a major drug manufacturer (a chemist who was
> > making crack, etc, in large quantities).  I agree he should be jailed
> > forever.  But ...
> > The feds couldn't catch him under the normal rules, so they relabeled
> > him a chemical weapons manufacturer and grabbed him under the new
> > anti-terrorism laws.
> > 
> > I'm sorry, but this abuse of power by power-hungry agencies is way
> > beyond reasonable.  While I'm glad the bastard?s in jail, I'm extremely
> > unhappy with the way he got there.  Welcome to the Police State of
> > America (where you might be next for using Linux instead of M$).  I
> > expect the RIAA will start pushing to label file sharers as terrorists
> > next.
> > 
> > I'm appalled and disgusted and glad to be living outside the US at this
> > point in time.
> > 
> 
> While I respect your opinion, I find it to be rather simplistic.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
        -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759

And, to quote Harry Emerson Fosdick, "Liberty is always dangerous, but it
is the safest thing we have."

> Here's my own.  I wish that I lived in a time and place where Homeland Security
> were not necessary.  I have yet to hear about (and I doubt that I will) of any
> actions taken by Homeland Security that have a negative effect on average, peace
> loving, hard working citizens.  If the new law of the land means that we now
> have additional tools to eliminate the scum of the earth (the chemist fits the
> description), that's great. 

Those same tools are *already* being used to erode your liberty and
your privacy. One example: http://www.dontspyon.us/jetbluescandal.html
And the guvmint is *already* lying about it.

> If the Homeland Security guys want my library usage record, they are welcome to
> it- mystery readers have little to fear. Somehow I doubt that a library reader
> whose only straying from the fold is to read a bomb making manual has nothing to
> fear.  If, however, that same reader has known associations with hardline groups
> that advocate violence and spends most of his time with Arab/Moslem groups
> (non-citizens) that support Hamas (spelling?) or other Jihad groups, then I
> believe that Homeland Security has every reason to follow his activities
> closely, and I applaud their efforts.

And next you'll tell me that I have something to hide if I invoke the
5th Amendment. Bah.

It isn't tracking known or suspected terrorists that bothers me. It's
the proposition that because I *don't* want John Ashcroft tapping my
phones, I have something to hide that bothers me. I have enough trouble
in airports as it is because I have olive skin and dark eyes - the dark
hair is mostly gone white.
> 
> Homeland Security is scarcely the same as the Nazi SS.  Where and when, pray
> tell, have they descended upon any innocent group of citizens, knocking heads
> and breaking up property?  You could, however, make the case that the

They haven't, yet. The SS didn't immediately go out and start cracking
heads. I'm not going to wait around for my government to do something
like that. I fight to prevent it from happening in the first place.

> ATF (remember Waco) has used Nazi tactics. And besides, we have had an active
> Nazi SS organization for decades - the IRS <grin>.. 
> 
> -- 
> Collins Richey - Denver Area
> if you fill your heart with regrets of yesterday and the 
> worries of tomorrow, you have no today to be thankful for.
> 
> 
> 
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-- 
"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of purge."