Linuxandmain

[dep]

begin  Zoki, mailinglist account's  quote:

| *** So the choice is given to a chosen view to prevent others in
| the near future from choosing what they want to... choose!?

absolutely not. it is instead to suggest that there is a *possibility* 
that all the tools each has a useful function. and that this function 
can *enhance,* rather than limit, choice.

the slogan of linux and main, linux for the rest of us, means just 
that: the site is designed for linux users. there are loads of sites 
for the hard-core idealogue, for the serious hacker, and for the 
enterprise adopter. this site is for the rest of us. the content 
touches on the other areas, as indeed "the rest of us" typically have 
interests touching on those other areas of interest. but its focus is 
users of linux on the desktop. and it advocates things that enhance 
that worthwhile goal.

| One of Linux strong points being the community spirit, I think
| peoples choices to use this system are based partly on its
| technical supremacy and partly on the community spirit which allows
| great things to be a achieved.
|
| As far as I understood, the Linux community is *against* patents in
| any form.
| A Linux site, by definition, represents the community, not an
| individual and thusly can not act as a representative of the said
| group and have opinions which are against its point of view. This
| will otherwise discredit the group as a whole.

linux and main represents linux and main. it is not owned by the 
community. it does not seek to speak for the community. it covers 
community voices, but that is different from parroting them. and as 
such, it must include a broad variety of points of view. we make 
space available for a variety of voices to be heard, unaltered, in 
the "guest essay" section. which among other things shows that the 
linux community is not as monolithic as you seem to believe. those 
essays often disagree with each other; they certainly frequently 
disagree with us and our policies. tough. indeed, one of the most 
objectionable aspects of the linux community is that it often seeks 
to silence other points of view, as indeed you seem to be advocating. 
"choice through unity" ain't much of a slogan.

| What can your arguments against patents and its bad influence be
| when your representatives are either openly going the same way (Red
| Hat) or sleeping with the devil (Linuxandmain)?

as expected, red hat has announced its intention -- even codified it 
-- to deal with patents in an entirely defensive fashion, even as the 
gpl deals with copyrights (which the linux community otherwise 
opposes as vigorously as it does patents). what you describe as 
"sleeping with the devil" comprises this, exactly this, and only 
this: we did not join the chorus of "oh, my god! something bad might 
happen!" and, in an effort to clarify the situation, we sent an email 
to red hat asking for clarification. which clarification was 
forthcoming. that clarification may or may not satisfy you. but 
surely you would want to be offered the opportunity to answer a roar 
of charges against you, would you not? or is it the opinion of the 
linux community that some persons or groups are not entitled to this 
basic tenet of decency? that some are guilty until proven innocent? 
that the linux community can do no wrong, while those outside the 
linux community can do no right? your flavor of "choice" is a little 
stomach-turning, seems to me.

| The difference of approach is the "I" in the last phrase. I was
| looking at the issue more from a "we" point of view...

for whom, other than yourself, have you been authorized to speak? we 
have certainly never claimed (or sought) to speak for anyone else, 
and would reject any such claim if it were thrust upon us, as 
happened above when you proposed that linux and main is somehow the 
property of the community, which it is not.

| As I said, we are not talking about an user, we are talking about a
| Linux site, an institution if you want. It represents more than one
| user. So in that context it has a function of representing what the
| community, not "a user" stands for.

again, it has no such function. it covers items that may or may not be 
of interest to linux users, and shall succeed or fail on that 
criterion and that criterion alone. this is both a matter of *our* 
choice and a matter of practicality, because your initial premise, 
which i've left alone until now, is itself flawed: there is *no* 
monolithic voice of the linux community. hence the ongoing battle 
between the open source and free software people. hence the disputes 
you will find if you look in the archives of this list or just about 
any other. this is a *good* thing -- a maoist fealty to purity of 
thought along a specific set of ideological rules invariably leads to 
the fate that maoism has suffered.

| I do not think it has anything to do with liberty of choice but
| with principals and having a clear agenda.

and, insofar as linux and main is concerned, what you think it has to 
do with is uniformly in error.

best,
-- 
dep

http://www.linuxandmain.com -- outside the box, barely within the 
envelope, and no animated paperclip anywhere.