From yoresoft at sbcglobal.net  Mon Mar  1 13:28:23 2010
From: yoresoft at sbcglobal.net (Richard Hane)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 13:28:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: IIs install
In-Reply-To: <823241.20690.qm@web53108.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <88401.22739.qm@web81407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<823241.20690.qm@web53108.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <434284.86815.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Chris,

First thanks for the info.? As you can see I am also copying this to the fp list for further input because frankly I am confused.

When using fpWeb on Apache I don't have to do anything with any of the tables.? All I have to do is load the executible batch files and a few other files (ie. HTMLs) to a specific folder from where they are 'called'.

I do not understand why IIs would be so different than Apache.? Maybe I don't understand what you are saying.

Anyone else want to chime in?

Thank you,
Rick Hane


________________________________
From: Christopher Yerry <christopheryerry at yahoo.com>
To: Richard Hane <yoresoft at sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Mon, March 1, 2010 1:27:42 PM
Subject: Re: IIs install


There are two answers, im giving you both. I will post the second more filePro friendly answer on the usergroup

To do this properly you need to have the filepro datatables accessible from the iis server. they have no security on the tables so they need to be accessable to the server not the outside world
i.e.
?? \filePro\TableStructure\Table1
?? \filePro\TableStructure\Table2
?? \filePro\TableStructure\Table3
etc

in the root of the iis server you need to create a web service. 
??? That service is reachable to the outside world, and has has security
i.e.
?? http:\\FileproWebservice_TheStitcherCompany.com???? or (whatever else you want to call? it)
??? ??? You need to write code to read a map file (not hard)
??? ??? You will need to include non record locking writing (also not hard)
??? ??? You need to understand what makes a filePro record (20bites header plus the record structure)
Have your webpage call the webservice for data

Simpler way (but would have to be completely re written each time)
??? Write an asp.net program to create the webpages. include the structure of each table you wish to access and open the file to read and open the file to write. 
You could stay filepro compliant if you wrote to a Non filepro table and then did updates and re indexes periodically throughout the day.

I did create a program one to actually use the filepro indexes but it was a nightmare,

Reading and writing and adding records to a filepro table from outside filepro makes most of the user group nervous, I will post the second answer on the web not the first suggestion. One of these days I need to write the first, just not sure there is a market for it 


?Feel free to call 


Christopher Yerry
CMYerry&Sons
227 Pine ST
Hudson, WI 54016715 410 4904?
10 Years of filePro
20 Years Microsoft (VB 2 - 6, VB.Net, ASP.Net, C#)




________________________________
From: Richard Hane <yoresoft at sbcglobal.net>
To: Christopher Yerry <christopheryerry at yahoo.com>
Cc: Rick Hane <rhane at deluxestitcher.com>
Sent: Mon, March 1, 2010 12:58:23 PM
Subject: Fw: IIs install


Chris,

I don't know if you received my reply (below) or saw John Esak's reply that he would have no problem with you sending it to the filepro list.

I am very interested.

Thanks in advance 
Rick Hane

?


----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Richard Hane <yoresoft at sbcglobal.net>
To: Christopher Yerry <christopheryerry at yahoo.com>
Sent: Fri, February 26, 2010 1:21:25 PM
Subject: Re:


Christopher,

Thanks for replying.

I would like to hear any suggestions you may have.? Also, any problems you may know about.

What I am doing is porting over my plant scheduling and job costing software to be able to run over html screens.? 1 reason is to give remote access but that is minor as there are many other ways to do that.? Rather to make better use of charts (gant, flow etc) I need the use of a true gui platform.

I own Howie's fpWeb and like it but I don't want to use Apache as my web server.

For my initial programming and testing I will be installing IIs on my laptop with Vista and using fpODBC version 5.0.15.

Any help would be appreciated but my main question is where do I load the executable programs and batch files for fp?

Thanks again 
Rick Hane

?



________________________________
From: Christopher Yerry <christopheryerry at yahoo.com>
To: filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
Cc: yoresoft at sbcglobal.net
Sent: Fri, February 26, 2010 12:51:15 PM
Subject: 


From: Richard Hane <yoresoft at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: fp running on IIs
To: filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
Message-ID: <520376.7982.qm at web81405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

To any of you who run filepro apps over the web while using Microsoft's IIs.... 
?

Yes I have done several solutions over the years, I'm not sure if you want the long solution here or offline. Would be happy to do it here if anyone else is interested

Christopher Yerry
CMYerry&Sons
227 Pine ST
Hudson, WI 54016
715 410 4904
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.celestial.com/pipermail/filepro-list/attachments/20100301/b758cf0a/attachment.html 

From fairlite at fairlite.com  Mon Mar  1 14:07:54 2010
From: fairlite at fairlite.com (Fairlight)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 17:07:54 -0500
Subject: IIs install
In-Reply-To: <434284.86815.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>;
	from yoresoft@sbcglobal.net on Mon, Mar 01, 2010 at 01:28:23PM
	-0800
References: <88401.22739.qm@web81407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<823241.20690.qm@web53108.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<434284.86815.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20100301170754.A4777@iglou.com>

On Mon, Mar 01, 2010 at 01:28:23PM -0800, Richard Hane may or may not have
proven themselves an utter git by pronouncing:
> Chris,
>
> First thanks for the info.? As you can see I am also copying this to the
> fp list for further input because frankly I am confused.
>
> When using fpWeb on Apache I don't have to do anything with any of the
> tables.? All I have to do is load the executible batch files and a
> few other files (ie. HTMLs) to a specific folder from where they are
> 'called'.
>
> I do not understand why IIs would be so different than Apache.? Maybe I
> don't understand what you are saying.
>
> Anyone else want to chime in?

Mr. Yerry's response was..."educational".  Can I say, "Avoid like the
plague?"

The whole precept of what he was doing was trying to access fP data
directly, rather than through the actual fP binaries wrapped in CGI.
Altogether the wrong move most of the time.


> I own Howie's fpWeb and like it but I don't want to use Apache as my web
> server.

Well here's a silly question...  Shouldn't Howie be supporting fPWeb?
Can't you ask him how to use it under IIS?  :)

For my part, here's my free advice:

1) Install filePro somewhere on a local drive (say, c:\filepro).

2) IIS generally has a default web server set up.  The default path as I
remember it is c:\inetpub.  Under that, there should be a cgi-bin
directory.  Any script you want run should be placed, therefore, in
c:\inetpub\cgi-bin\ and called with http://host.com/cgi-bin/scriptname from
the browser.  Mind you, this was for the default IIS setup on Win2K3.

3) Your scripts should use clerk or report from the regular filepro
installation directory.

4) You should set either all of cgi-bin, or at least the individual scripts
to run as the same user that was used for installing filepro.  In Apache,
you'd take one of two approaches...either 1) use cgiwrap or suexec to run
just the scripts as filepro, or 2) run apache in its entirety as filepro.
Since Windows is at best quasi-secure anyway, I simply change cgi-bin to run
all scripts as Administrator (which is what most places use to install fP
with anyway), along with the password for said account.  I totally ignore
and override the IIS default account for cgi-bin, since it's been the path
of least resistance.  (Good luck trying to find out what the web user's
"real account" is, and how to install fP as that "user"...I think it's a
pseudo-user of some sort.)

That should do it.

I've done IIS + OneGate + fP on multiple IIS machines.  It's not hard, as
long as you get the locations, environment, and permissions correct.

If Howie can't/won't help under IIS and you need further help, I'd be
willing to help further offlist, at my normal rates.

mark->

From yoresoft at sbcglobal.net  Mon Mar  1 14:34:21 2010
From: yoresoft at sbcglobal.net (Richard Hane)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 14:34:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: IIs install
In-Reply-To: <20100301170754.A4777@iglou.com>
References: <88401.22739.qm@web81407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<823241.20690.qm@web53108.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<434284.86815.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20100301170754.A4777@iglou.com>
Message-ID: <905303.81250.qm@web81405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Mark,

[ sorry for the top post but not really part of the thread ]

Thanks I will install and test this weekend.

However, one point I did want to clear up.

You commented
>> I own Howie's fpWeb and like it but I don't want to use Apache as my web
>> server.

>Well here's a silly question...? Shouldn't Howie be supporting fPWeb?
>Can't you ask him how to use it under IIS?? :)

Howie years ago made it clear that he was not selling or supporting fpWeb any longer.? In fact several times over the past year he has seen posts of mine and (unsolicited) gave me direction.

I'll let you know how the test goes.

Thanks
Rick

?
From: Fairlight <fairlite at fairlite.com>
To: filePro Mailing List <filepro-list at lists.celestial.com>
Sent: Mon, March 1, 2010 4:07:54 PM
Subject: Re: IIs install

On Mon, Mar 01, 2010 at 01:28:23PM -0800, Richard Hane may or may not have
proven themselves an utter git by pronouncing:
> Chris,
>
> First thanks for the info.? As you can see I am also copying this to the
> fp list for further input because frankly I am confused.
>
> When using fpWeb on Apache I don't have to do anything with any of the
> tables.? All I have to do is load the executible batch files and a
> few other files (ie. HTMLs) to a specific folder from where they are
> 'called'.
>
> I do not understand why IIs would be so different than Apache.? Maybe I
> don't understand what you are saying.
>
> Anyone else want to chime in?

Mr. Yerry's response was..."educational".? Can I say, "Avoid like the
plague?"

The whole precept of what he was doing was trying to access fP data
directly, rather than through the actual fP binaries wrapped in CGI.
Altogether the wrong move most of the time.


> I own Howie's fpWeb and like it but I don't want to use Apache as my web
> server.

Well here's a silly question...? Shouldn't Howie be supporting fPWeb?
Can't you ask him how to use it under IIS?? :)

For my part, here's my free advice:

1) Install filePro somewhere on a local drive (say, c:\filepro).

2) IIS generally has a default web server set up.? The default path as I
remember it is c:\inetpub.? Under that, there should be a cgi-bin
directory.? Any script you want run should be placed, therefore, in
c:\inetpub\cgi-bin\ and called with http://host.com/cgi-bin/scriptname from
the browser.? Mind you, this was for the default IIS setup on Win2K3.

3) Your scripts should use clerk or report from the regular filepro
installation directory.

4) You should set either all of cgi-bin, or at least the individual scripts
to run as the same user that was used for installing filepro.? In Apache,
you'd take one of two approaches...either 1) use cgiwrap or suexec to run
just the scripts as filepro, or 2) run apache in its entirety as filepro.
Since Windows is at best quasi-secure anyway, I simply change cgi-bin to run
all scripts as Administrator (which is what most places use to install fP
with anyway), along with the password for said account.? I totally ignore
and override the IIS default account for cgi-bin, since it's been the path
of least resistance.? (Good luck trying to find out what the web user's
"real account" is, and how to install fP as that "user"...I think it's a
pseudo-user of some sort.)

That should do it.

I've done IIS + OneGate + fP on multiple IIS machines.? It's not hard, as
long as you get the locations, environment, and permissions correct.

If Howie can't/won't help under IIS and you need further help, I'd be
willing to help further offlist, at my normal rates.

mark->
_______________________________________________
Filepro-list mailing list
Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.celestial.com/pipermail/filepro-list/attachments/20100301/b7c03440/attachment-0001.html 

From john at chrismanncomputer.com  Tue Mar  2 06:14:23 2010
From: john at chrismanncomputer.com (John Sica)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2010 07:14:23 -0700
Subject: Sending tray code to hp
Message-ID: <4B8D1D3F.1020505@chrismanncomputer.com>

I need to send a tray selection code to an HP printer for specific users 
(determined by login account).  The printer name is already set in a 
variable that filepro gets (GETENV) for PCs in this department, 
determined by IP address. 

The login needs to be able to change this printer destination again so 
that all jobs send the tray 2 code (which is not the default tray) 
before the jobs print.  

Every print job sends an overlay to the printer, then prints the job.  
Each job is 3 pages, and the overlay gets resent after each  page.  I 
know sending the overlay every page is extra work, but everything prints 
fast anyway.

My thought is to create a new printer who's interface program embeds the 
tray 2 code (^[&l1H) , then have this new printer set in the environment 
at login.

I don't know how to embed this code in the interface script, which now 
all use netcat in the interface script (sco unix 5.05).

My other thought is to use the new filepro printer name  (which is the 
same name as the unix printer name), to have the tray 3 code initialize 
it.  I'm not sure how to do this either.

A suggestion either way would be appreciated.

Thanks,

John

From rkreiss at verizon.net  Tue Mar  2 06:55:01 2010
From: rkreiss at verizon.net (Richard Kreiss)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2010 09:55:01 -0500
Subject: Sending tray code to hp
In-Reply-To: <4B8D1D3F.1020505@chrismanncomputer.com>
References: <4B8D1D3F.1020505@chrismanncomputer.com>
Message-ID: <00e901caba18$568f8c30$03aea490$@net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: filepro-list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com
[mailto:filepro-
> list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com] On Behalf Of John
Sica
> Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 9:14 AM
> To: filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> Subject: Sending tray code to hp
> 
> I need to send a tray selection code to an HP printer for specific users
> (determined by login account).  The printer name is already set in a
> variable that filepro gets (GETENV) for PCs in this department,
> determined by IP address.
> 
> The login needs to be able to change this printer destination again so
> that all jobs send the tray 2 code (which is not the default tray)
> before the jobs print.
> 
> Every print job sends an overlay to the printer, then prints the job.
> Each job is 3 pages, and the overlay gets resent after each  page.  I
> know sending the overlay every page is extra work, but everything prints
> fast anyway.
> 
> My thought is to create a new printer who's interface program embeds the
> tray 2 code (^[&l1H) , then have this new printer set in the environment
> at login.
> 
> I don't know how to embed this code in the interface script, which now
> all use netcat in the interface script (sco unix 5.05).
> 
> My other thought is to use the new filepro printer name  (which is the
> same name as the unix printer name), to have the tray 3 code initialize
> it.  I'm not sure how to do this either.
> 
> A suggestion either way would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John

Why not place a variable at the top of the page to output the tray wanted.

In processing set the variable to the proper tray code based on who the use
is.

This avoids have to create a new printer and would allow the print job to go
to any printer with multiple trays.


Richard Kreiss
GCC Consulting
rkreiss at gccconsulting.net
? 





From wrandall at fptech.com  Tue Mar  2 09:09:51 2010
From: wrandall at fptech.com (Bill Randall)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2010 12:09:51 -0500
Subject: Customer inquiry
Message-ID: <4B8D465F.2020603@fptech.com>

We have a customer located in North Carolina looking for someone 
familiar with either the GENESIS wholesale jewelry program or the 
jewelry business in general.

Please reply to me off list.

Thanks

Bill

-- 

William Randall
wrandall at fptech.com



From appl at jpr.com  Tue Mar  2 09:16:40 2010
From: appl at jpr.com (Jean-Pierre A. Radley)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 12:16:40 -0500
Subject: Sending tray code to hp
In-Reply-To: <4B8D1D3F.1020505@chrismanncomputer.com>
References: <4B8D1D3F.1020505@chrismanncomputer.com>
Message-ID: <20100302171640.GA20207@jpradley.jpr.com>

John Sica propounded (on Tue, Mar 02, 2010 at 07:14:23AM -0700):
| I need to send a tray selection code to an HP printer for specific users 
| (determined by login account).  The printer name is already set in a 
| variable that filepro gets (GETENV) for PCs in this department, 
| determined by IP address. 
| 
| The login needs to be able to change this printer destination again so 
| that all jobs send the tray 2 code (which is not the default tray) 
| before the jobs print.  
| 
| Every print job sends an overlay to the printer, then prints the job.  
| Each job is 3 pages, and the overlay gets resent after each  page.  I 
| know sending the overlay every page is extra work, but everything prints 
| fast anyway.
| 
| My thought is to create a new printer who's interface program embeds the 
| tray 2 code (^[&l1H) , then have this new printer set in the environment 
| at login.
| 
| I don't know how to embed this code in the interface script, which now 
| all use netcat in the interface script (sco unix 5.05).
| 
| My other thought is to use the new filepro printer name  (which is the 
| same name as the unix printer name), to have the tray 3 code initialize 
| it.  I'm not sure how to do this either.
| 
| A suggestion either way would be appreciated.

What model script are you using?

-- 
JP

From john at chrismanncomputer.com  Tue Mar  2 11:49:03 2010
From: john at chrismanncomputer.com (John Sica)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2010 12:49:03 -0700
Subject: Sending tray code to hp
In-Reply-To: <20100302171640.GA20207@jpradley.jpr.com>
References: <4B8D1D3F.1020505@chrismanncomputer.com>
	<20100302171640.GA20207@jpradley.jpr.com>
Message-ID: <4B8D6BAF.4010909@chrismanncomputer.com>

I use the hp printer manager program to install the printer and choose
the HPLaserjet model.  I then copy the netcat script over script in
../interfaces that starts something like the small paste below.
======================
#!/bin/sh
YOUR_PRINTER_OR_IP="192.168.0.90"
PORT=9100
#
#       @(#) hpnp.model 62.2 97/03/03
#
======================
and contains these lines somewhere in the middle of the script
=======================
PERIPH=
if [ "$PERIPH" = "" ]
then
        PERIPH=$MODEL
fi
LOG=/tmp/$PERIPH.$$
HPNPF=/usr/bin/netcat
LPLOG=/tmp/hpnpf.$$
LOGTRIES=5

echo "$1\t$REALMODEL | $HPNPF -x $PERIPH" >> $LPLOG
========================
I assume this uses the model chosen which now resides in ../model.orig

I started using netcat several years ago to solve problems that I
couldn't fix by just removing and installing the same printer with the
hp printer manager program.

Netcat almost always works, except printing long files over the internet.

Thanks for responding,

John



Jean-Pierre A. Radley wrote:
> John Sica propounded (on Tue, Mar 02, 2010 at 07:14:23AM -0700):
> | I need to send a tray selection code to an HP printer for specific users 
> | (determined by login account).  The printer name is already set in a 
> | variable that filepro gets (GETENV) for PCs in this department, 
> | determined by IP address. 
> | 
> | The login needs to be able to change this printer destination again so 
> | that all jobs send the tray 2 code (which is not the default tray) 
> | before the jobs print.  
> | 
> | Every print job sends an overlay to the printer, then prints the job.  
> | Each job is 3 pages, and the overlay gets resent after each  page.  I 
> | know sending the overlay every page is extra work, but everything prints 
> | fast anyway.
> | 
> | My thought is to create a new printer who's interface program embeds the 
> | tray 2 code (^[&l1H) , then have this new printer set in the environment 
> | at login.
> | 
> | I don't know how to embed this code in the interface script, which now 
> | all use netcat in the interface script (sco unix 5.05).
> | 
> | My other thought is to use the new filepro printer name  (which is the 
> | same name as the unix printer name), to have the tray 3 code initialize 
> | it.  I'm not sure how to do this either.
> | 
> | A suggestion either way would be appreciated.
>
> What model script are you using?
>
>   



From john at chrismanncomputer.com  Tue Mar  2 12:33:45 2010
From: john at chrismanncomputer.com (John Sica)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2010 13:33:45 -0700
Subject: Sending tray code to hp
In-Reply-To: <011d01caba42$6960a630$3c21f290$@net>
References: <4B8D1D3F.1020505@chrismanncomputer.com>
	<00e901caba18$568f8c30$03aea490$@net>
	<4B8D364C.3090401@chrismanncomputer.com>
	<00f001caba23$c51eeb40$4f5cc1c0$@net>
	<4B8D6B50.1010204@chrismanncomputer.com>
	<011d01caba42$6960a630$3c21f290$@net>
Message-ID: <4B8D7629.7050904@chrismanncomputer.com>

I have done that, but it was slightly different in that case.  It wasn't 
filepro, but a cobol accounting program not very different than 
"RealWorld" called "Truckpro". I thought I could be a little more direct 
here.
As it turns out, JP asked me what the interface script was. As I thought 
about it and examined the script, I stumbled upon a line in the 
HPLaserJet SCO Unix interface script.  The line had the code for the 
upper bin, appropriately named ubin.  The code was Octal, I think, and I 
added that echo command (echo "\033&l1H") right before the line in the 
script that says "start printing files here".

Well, it works perfectly.  Everything that prints using this printer 
prints to the upper bin and everything else, prints to the lower bin.  
Saved them the space and cost of a new printer.

Thanks for your timely responses, both you and JP covered all the areas 
I covered in my thought processes.

John

Richard Kreiss wrote:
> Have you tried putting everything into a script, outside fp, then calling
> the script a menu?
>
> You have a lot of good tools on *nix for reading the menu's script files for
> the report name you are looking for.  This should cut down on the time it
> takes to reprogram the menus.
>
> Since I only work in a windows environment and have been out of *nix for
> almost 25 years, my scripting is quite rusty.
>
> Richard
>
>   
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: John Sica [mailto:john at chrismanncomputer.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 2:47 PM
>> To: Richard Kreiss
>> Subject: Re: Sending tray code to hp
>>
>> I think the new programmer, who works for me (my daughter) doesn't know
>> where all the menus are that print to this printer.  And I know how
>> complicated it was to  find all the processing tables to insert the
>> getenv parameter to change the printer destination in the first place.
>> She did that as well.
>>
>> I just thought that if I could get that code at the front of the print
>> job using maybe the cat - >>"print code in proper format" | netcat -h
>> "ipaddress" -p "portnum" on the filepro command line in printer
>> configuration, it would work.
>>
>> It works when I type it in from the shell, but filepro doesn't like cat
>> filename >>$TRAYCODE | netcat etc,etc,etc.
>>
>> I have been able to put variables in the printer command line, but these
>> kinds of codes are not usual, in that they may have to be in a certain
>> format, I think.  Not really sure as to why it prints from the command
>> line, but not from the line in the config file.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Richard Kreiss wrote:
>>     
>>> John,
>>>
>>> If you are printing from a menu command line, you could add -r
>>>       
> printer_name
>   
>>> to the command line and then check if  @pm = printer_name and if so set
>>>       
> the
>   
>>> variable.
>>>
>>> Richard
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: John Sica [mailto:john at chrismanncomputer.com]
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 11:01 AM
>>>> To: Richard Kreiss
>>>> Subject: Re: Sending tray code to hp
>>>>
>>>> Yes, that's a good idea.  In fact, that's how I tested the code in the
>>>> first place.  The only problem with that is that the 30 or 40 different
>>>> print jobs that could print to this tray also print to other printers
>>>>         
> in
>   
>>>> other departments when the customer is in another department at the
>>>>         
> time
>   
>>>> of invoicing/registration/whatever.  I don't think that is as much of a
>>>> problem, cuz there are no other printers (10) that have extra trays,
>>>> only this one.  So the code would probably not do any harm being  on
>>>>         
> the
>   
>>>> page.   Unless it works so well that they want to get extra trays for
>>>> the other printers.   With all the different developers in over the
>>>>         
> last
>   
>>>> 25 years, I didn't want to have the customer have to tell me what form
>>>> didn't print on the right tray and fix each problem reactively.
>>>>
>>>> I'll be trying a couple of ways to do this in a few hours, and if I
>>>>         
> find
>   
>>>> a solution, I'll let you know what worked.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for responding
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Richard Kreiss wrote:
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: filepro-list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>>>> [mailto:filepro-
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>>>> list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com] On Behalf Of
>>>>>>             
> John
>   
>>>>>>             
>>>>> Sica
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 9:14 AM
>>>>>> To: filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
>>>>>> Subject: Sending tray code to hp
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I need to send a tray selection code to an HP printer for specific
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>> users
>>>
>>>       
>>>>>> (determined by login account).  The printer name is already set in a
>>>>>> variable that filepro gets (GETENV) for PCs in this department,
>>>>>> determined by IP address.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The login needs to be able to change this printer destination again
>>>>>>             
> so
>   
>>>>>> that all jobs send the tray 2 code (which is not the default tray)
>>>>>> before the jobs print.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Every print job sends an overlay to the printer, then prints the job.
>>>>>> Each job is 3 pages, and the overlay gets resent after each  page.  I
>>>>>> know sending the overlay every page is extra work, but everything
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>> prints
>>>
>>>       
>>>>>> fast anyway.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My thought is to create a new printer who's interface program embeds
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>> the
>>>
>>>       
>>>>>> tray 2 code (^[&l1H) , then have this new printer set in the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>> environment
>>>
>>>       
>>>>>> at login.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know how to embed this code in the interface script, which
>>>>>>             
> now
>   
>>>>>> all use netcat in the interface script (sco unix 5.05).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My other thought is to use the new filepro printer name  (which is
>>>>>>             
> the
>   
>>>>>> same name as the unix printer name), to have the tray 3 code
>>>>>>             
> initialize
>   
>>>>>> it.  I'm not sure how to do this either.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A suggestion either way would be appreciated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>>>> Why not place a variable at the top of the page to output the tray
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>> wanted.
>>>
>>>       
>>>>> In processing set the variable to the proper tray code based on who
>>>>>           
> the
>   
>>> use
>>>
>>>       
>>>>> is.
>>>>>
>>>>> This avoids have to create a new printer and would allow the print job
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>> to go
>>>
>>>       
>>>>> to any printer with multiple trays.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Richard Kreiss
>>>>> GCC Consulting
>>>>> rkreiss at gccconsulting.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>
>
>
>
>   


From jlasman at telus.net  Tue Mar  2 14:25:14 2010
From: jlasman at telus.net (Jim Asman)
Date: Tue,  2 Mar 2010 14:25:14 -0800
Subject: Sending tray code to hp
Message-ID: <ID-00003079-4B8D904A-0000-0001@telus.net>

--------------- Original Message ---------------
At 01:33P Tue Mar 02 2010, John Sica wrote:

> I have done that, but it was slightly different in that case.  It wasn't 
> filepro, but a cobol accounting program not very different than 
> "RealWorld" called "Truckpro". I thought I could be a little more direct 
> here.
> As it turns out, JP asked me what the interface script was. As I thought 
> about it and examined the script, I stumbled upon a line in the 
> HPLaserJet SCO Unix interface script.  The line had the code for the 
> upper bin, appropriately named ubin.  The code was Octal, I think, and I 
> added that echo command (echo "\033&l1H") right before the line in the 
> script that says "start printing files here".
> 
> Well, it works perfectly.  Everything that prints using this printer 
> prints to the upper bin and everything else, prints to the lower bin.  
> Saved them the space and cost of a new printer.
> 
> Thanks for your timely responses, both you and JP covered all the areas 
> I covered in my thought processes.
> 

Usually, tray selection issues end up about, what should the printer
do if the selected tray is out of paper?

Equally as important, what will the printer do if the other tray is
out of paper when a print request hits it?

What will the printers at hand do?


Jim 
--
jlasman at telus.net                      Spectra Colour Services Ltd.
Jim Asman                              10221 144a Street            
Phone: (604)584-0977                   Surrey, BC  V3R 3P7   CANADA            
 Cell: (604)619-0977                   www.spectracolorservices.com


From appl at jpr.com  Tue Mar  2 14:27:50 2010
From: appl at jpr.com (Jean-Pierre A. Radley)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 17:27:50 -0500
Subject: Sending tray code to hp
In-Reply-To: <4B8D6BAF.4010909@chrismanncomputer.com>
References: <4B8D1D3F.1020505@chrismanncomputer.com>
	<20100302171640.GA20207@jpradley.jpr.com>
	<4B8D6BAF.4010909@chrismanncomputer.com>
Message-ID: <20100302222750.GA7438@jpradley.jpr.com>

John Sica propounded (on Tue, Mar 02, 2010 at 12:49:03PM -0700):
| I use the hp printer manager program to install the printer and choose
| the HPLaserjet model.  I then copy the netcat script over script in
| ../interfaces that starts something like the small paste below.
| ======================
| #!/bin/sh
| YOUR_PRINTER_OR_IP="192.168.0.90"
| PORT=9100
| #
| #       @(#) hpnp.model 62.2 97/03/03
| #
| ======================
| and contains these lines somewhere in the middle of the script
| =======================
| PERIPH=
| if [ "$PERIPH" = "" ]
| then
|         PERIPH=$MODEL
| fi
| LOG=/tmp/$PERIPH.$$
| HPNPF=/usr/bin/netcat
| LPLOG=/tmp/hpnpf.$$
| LOGTRIES=5
| 
| echo "$1\t$REALMODEL | $HPNPF -x $PERIPH" >> $LPLOG
| ========================
| I assume this uses the model chosen which now resides in ../model.orig
| 
| I started using netcat several years ago to solve problems that I
| couldn't fix by just removing and installing the same printer with the
| hp printer manager program.
| 
| Netcat almost always works, except printing long files over the internet.

I dont a copy of that version of the script to see for myself, but
if you have some lines like these in that file:

	# Set up printer default modes -- Assume PCL mode on entry
	echo "\033E\c"          # Reset Printer
	echo "\033)0B\c"        # Secondary character set line draw
	echo "\033&k2G\c"       # Set line termination mode.

Than add one more for tray selection:
	
	echo "\033*l1H\c"	# Set paper source from lower tray

N.B: I don't mean to modify the model script -- edit its copy in the
interfaces directory.

OTOH, read the script and see if it already contains an lb or lbin
option to do that tray selection; in that case, you could leave
the interface script alone, but define a printer in filePro which
incorporates that option.

-- 
JP

From brian at aljex.com  Tue Mar  2 14:38:57 2010
From: brian at aljex.com (Brian K. White)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2010 17:38:57 -0500
Subject: Customer inquiry
In-Reply-To: <4B8D465F.2020603@fptech.com>
References: <4B8D465F.2020603@fptech.com>
Message-ID: <4B8D9381.4040700@aljex.com>

Bill Randall wrote:
> We have a customer located in North Carolina looking for someone 
> familiar with either the GENESIS wholesale jewelry program or the 
> jewelry business in general.
> 
> Please reply to me off list.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Bill

I once did some work for Starcraft Diamonds down that way. I think their 
  usual fp programmer was Linda Hapner so unless this is them looking 
for her replacement, I'd say look her up.

-- 
bkw


From rkreiss at verizon.net  Wed Mar  3 12:48:30 2010
From: rkreiss at verizon.net (Richard Kreiss)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 15:48:30 -0500
Subject: interesting program
Message-ID: <004301cabb12$e26c1520$a7443f60$@net>

Problem:

Client needs to move filepro data from office computer to home computer using a usb drive.

Drive letter on home computer changes periodically.

I wrote this program to find the drive letter of the drive and run  proper batch file to either copy from the computer or to the computer using xcopy.

If anyone has a more efficient way do doing this, I am open to suggestions.

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
  8  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
       ? If:
       Then: declare drive,usb_drive,where,runthis
  9  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
       ? If: 'uncommented if running from *report
       Then: 'END
 10  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
@once  ? If: '******************************************************
       Then: '* get file name to import
 11  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
       ? If:
       Then: bs=chr("92")
 12  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
       ? If:
       Then: drive="C"
13  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
       ? If: usb_drive = ""
       Then: usb_drive=drive
 14  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
loop_dr? If: 'get drive letter for usb drive
       Then: zz=asc(usb_drive)+"1";usb_drive=chr(zz)
 15  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
       ? If: usb_drive = "Z"
       Then: ERRORBOX "USB Drive Not Found";EXIT
 16  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
       ? If: 'can be any file name on usb drive that will always be there
       Then: where=usb_drive{":"{bs{"move.bat"{""
 17  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
       ? If:
       Then: qq=exists(where)
 18  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
       ? If:         qq le "0"
       Then:         GOTO loop_dr
19  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
       ? If:
       Then: dim rifka(3)
 20  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
       ? If:
       Then: rifka["1"]="Select Option"
 21  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
       ? If:
       Then: rifka["2"]="1: Save to USB Drive"<usb_drive
 22  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
       ? If:
       Then: rifka["3"]="2: Copy from USB Drive"<usb_drive<"to Computer"
 23  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
       ? If:
       Then: menu rifka saveit,copyit,done
 24  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
done   ? If:
       Then: EXIT
25  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
copyit ? If: 'copy from usb drive to computer                                  
       Then: runthis=usb_drive{":"{"move_from_computer.bat"{usb_drive;GOTO doit
 26  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
saveit ? If: 'copy from computer to usb drive                                  
       Then: runthis=usb_drive{":"{"move_to_usbdrive.bat"<usb_drive{"";GOTO doit
 27  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
       ? If:                                                                   
       Then: END                                                               
 28  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
doit   ? If:                                                                   
       Then: system runthis{""                                                 
 29  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
       ? If:                                                                   
       Then: EXIT                                                              

Have printer issues as he uses a dot matrix printer at home which is not in the office.


Richard Kreiss
GCC Consulting
rkreiss at gccconsulting.net
  





From mschw at athenet.net  Wed Mar  3 14:21:10 2010
From: mschw at athenet.net (Mike Schwartz)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 16:21:10 -0600
Subject: interesting program
In-Reply-To: <004301cabb12$e26c1520$a7443f60$@net>
References: <004301cabb12$e26c1520$a7443f60$@net>
Message-ID: <025501cabb1f$d3fa3190$7bee94b0$@net>

> Problem:
> 
> Client needs to move filepro data from office computer to home computer
> using a usb drive.
> 
> Drive letter on home computer changes periodically.

     Another approach might be a Windows utility like this, that can "lock down" the drive letter of most USB devices when they are inserted on a specific computer.

USBDLM - for managing and "locking down" USB (and other) drive letters on Windows computers:

http://www.uwe-sieber.de/usbdlm_e.html

Mike Schwartz






From ras at anzio.com  Wed Mar  3 14:58:40 2010
From: ras at anzio.com (Bob Rasmussen)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 14:58:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: interesting program
In-Reply-To: <025501cabb1f$d3fa3190$7bee94b0$@net>
References: <004301cabb12$e26c1520$a7443f60$@net>
	<025501cabb1f$d3fa3190$7bee94b0$@net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64ras.1003031450550.18756@nimbus.anzio.com>

You can actually lock it down without a program. Go to Control 
Panel->Administrative tools->Computer management->Storage->Disk management 
(local). Right-click the drive in question and select "Change drive letter 
and paths". Take it from there. 

I use this procedure on several machines, then have .BAT files to backup 
and restore working files. 

On Wed, 3 Mar 2010, Mike Schwartz wrote:

> > Problem:
> > 
> > Client needs to move filepro data from office computer to home computer
> > using a usb drive.
> > 
> > Drive letter on home computer changes periodically.
> 
>      Another approach might be a Windows utility like this, that can "lock down" the drive letter of most USB devices when they are inserted on a specific computer.
> 
> USBDLM - for managing and "locking down" USB (and other) drive letters on Windows computers:
> 
> http://www.uwe-sieber.de/usbdlm_e.html
> 
> Mike Schwartz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing list
> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
> 
> 

Regards,
....Bob Rasmussen,   President,   Rasmussen Software, Inc.

personal e-mail: ras at anzio.com
 company e-mail: rsi at anzio.com
          voice: (US) 503-624-0360 (9:00-6:00 Pacific Time)
            fax: (US) 503-624-0760
            web: http://www.anzio.com
 street address: Rasmussen Software, Inc.
                 10240 SW Nimbus, Suite L9
                 Portland, OR  97223  USA

From bill.mceachran at gmail.com  Wed Mar  3 15:09:08 2010
From: bill.mceachran at gmail.com (Bill McEachran)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 18:09:08 -0500
Subject: interesting program
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64ras.1003031450550.18756@nimbus.anzio.com>
References: <004301cabb12$e26c1520$a7443f60$@net>
	<025501cabb1f$d3fa3190$7bee94b0$@net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64ras.1003031450550.18756@nimbus.anzio.com>
Message-ID: <4B8EEC14.6010806@yahoo.com>

Will that persist across a reboot?
My solution to these types of situations is a vbs script that looks for 
the devices volume name, then finds the drive letter to which the volume 
is assigned.
This is becoming a bigger issue with USB hard drives, thumbdrives, mpeg 
players, cameras .....

On 3/3/2010 5:58 PM, Bob Rasmussen wrote:
> You can actually lock it down without a program. Go to Control
> Panel->Administrative tools->Computer management->Storage->Disk management
> (local). Right-click the drive in question and select "Change drive letter
> and paths". Take it from there.
>
> I use this procedure on several machines, then have .BAT files to backup
> and restore working files.
>
> On Wed, 3 Mar 2010, Mike Schwartz wrote:
>
>    
>>> Problem:
>>>
>>> Client needs to move filepro data from office computer to home computer
>>> using a usb drive.
>>>
>>> Drive letter on home computer changes periodically.
>>>        
>>       Another approach might be a Windows utility like this, that can "lock down" the drive letter of most USB devices when they are inserted on a specific computer.
>>
>> USBDLM - for managing and "locking down" USB (and other) drive letters on Windows computers:
>>
>> http://www.uwe-sieber.de/usbdlm_e.html
>>
>> Mike Schwartz
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Filepro-list mailing list
>> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
>> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
>>
>>
>>      
> Regards,
> ....Bob Rasmussen,   President,   Rasmussen Software, Inc.
>
> personal e-mail: ras at anzio.com
>   company e-mail: rsi at anzio.com
>            voice: (US) 503-624-0360 (9:00-6:00 Pacific Time)
>              fax: (US) 503-624-0760
>              web: http://www.anzio.com
>   street address: Rasmussen Software, Inc.
>                   10240 SW Nimbus, Suite L9
>                   Portland, OR  97223  USA
> _______________________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing list
> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
>    
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2721 - Release Date: 03/03/10 14:34:00
>
>    

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.celestial.com/pipermail/filepro-list/attachments/20100303/c366240c/attachment.html 

From roberth at sim-soft.com  Wed Mar  3 19:24:48 2010
From: roberth at sim-soft.com (Bob Thomason)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 21:24:48 -0600
Subject: interesting program
References: <004301cabb12$e26c1520$a7443f60$@net><025501cabb1f$d3fa3190$7bee94b0$@net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64ras.1003031450550.18756@nimbus.anzio.com>
Message-ID: <001d01cabb4a$3f87d140$7565a8c0@bobxp1>

Hmmm.....I've tried this on Windows XP Pro and you can cartainly change the 
USB drive letter but it may more may not remain the same when you remove it 
and put it in again.  If you use a different USB drive in that same slot 
(even the same brand) the drive letter is subject to change.

This has been my experience.  So, probably some locking utility might be the 
answer.

Warmly,
Bob
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Rasmussen" <ras at anzio.com>
To: "Mike Schwartz" <mschw at athenet.net>
Cc: <filepro-list at lists.celestial.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 4:58 PM
Subject: RE: interesting program


> You can actually lock it down without a program. Go to Control
> Panel->Administrative tools->Computer management->Storage->Disk management
> (local). Right-click the drive in question and select "Change drive letter
> and paths". Take it from there.
>
> I use this procedure on several machines, then have .BAT files to backup
> and restore working files.
>
> On Wed, 3 Mar 2010, Mike Schwartz wrote:
>
>> > Problem:
>> >
>> > Client needs to move filepro data from office computer to home computer
>> > using a usb drive.
>> >
>> > Drive letter on home computer changes periodically.
>>
>>      Another approach might be a Windows utility like this, that can 
>> "lock down" the drive letter of most USB devices when they are inserted 
>> on a specific computer.
>>
>> USBDLM - for managing and "locking down" USB (and other) drive letters on 
>> Windows computers:
>>
>> http://www.uwe-sieber.de/usbdlm_e.html
>>
>> Mike Schwartz
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Filepro-list mailing list
>> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
>> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
>>
>>
>
> Regards,
> ....Bob Rasmussen,   President,   Rasmussen Software, Inc.
>
> personal e-mail: ras at anzio.com
> company e-mail: rsi at anzio.com
>          voice: (US) 503-624-0360 (9:00-6:00 Pacific Time)
>            fax: (US) 503-624-0760
>            web: http://www.anzio.com
> street address: Rasmussen Software, Inc.
>                 10240 SW Nimbus, Suite L9
>                 Portland, OR  97223  USA
> _______________________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing list
> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list 


From roberth at sim-soft.com  Wed Mar  3 19:28:33 2010
From: roberth at sim-soft.com (Bob Thomason)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 21:28:33 -0600
Subject: Birthday coming soon
Message-ID: <000801cabb4a$c4ec8790$7565a8c0@bobxp1>

Did I just see where John Esak's got a birthday coming soon??  Happy pre-Birthday dude!!

Warmly,
Bob
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.celestial.com/pipermail/filepro-list/attachments/20100303/1899a1f4/attachment-0001.html 

From john at valar.com  Wed Mar  3 19:40:37 2010
From: john at valar.com (John Esak)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 22:40:37 -0500
Subject: Birthday coming soon
In-Reply-To: <000801cabb4a$c4ec8790$7565a8c0@bobxp1>
Message-ID: <201003040341.o243fJ6E087374@admin114.securesites.net>

>>>


From: filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.com
[mailto:filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.com] On Behalf
Of Bob Thomason
Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 10:29 PM
To: fplist
Subject: Birthday coming soon


Did I just see where John Esak's got a birthday coming soon??  Happy
pre-Birthday dude!!
 
Warmly,
Bob

<<<<<
 
 
Now how in the world would you know that?  I was just thinking that this
year I would not get Bob Stockler's "Birthy Hapday" message which I had
gotten about 25 years in a row.... thanks for knowing and at 60 I'm not sure
thanking you for divulging it is good or bad.... Ah hell, it's good.. 61
years around the sun.... and I feel every ache and pain of it!  :-)
 
John
 
P.S. They've asked me to do a set at the club on Saturday night...  I think
I'll work up Happy Birthday To Me... Happy Birthday To Me...  Happy Birthday
Dear Guru.... :-)  :-)    Okay, okay, so I'm not a Guru... who will know?
 
:-)
 

 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.celestial.com/pipermail/filepro-list/attachments/20100303/6de30c95/attachment.html 

From yoresoft at sbcglobal.net  Wed Mar  3 20:22:58 2010
From: yoresoft at sbcglobal.net (Richard Hane)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 20:22:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Birthday coming soon
In-Reply-To: <201003040341.o243fJ6E087374@admin114.securesites.net>
References: <201003040341.o243fJ6E087374@admin114.securesites.net>
Message-ID: <662839.7338.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


?



________________________________
From: John Esak <john at valar.com>
To: fplist <filepro-list at lists.celestial.com>
Sent: Wed, March 3, 2010 9:40:37 PM
Subject: Birthday coming soon


>>>

From: filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.com [mailto:filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.com] On Behalf Of Bob Thomason
>Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 10:29 PM
>To: fplist
>Subject: Birthday coming soon
>
>
>Did I just see where John Esak's got a birthday coming?soon??? Happy pre-Birthday dude!!
>?
>Warmly,
>Bob
<<<<<
?
?
Now how in the world would you know that?? I was just thinking that this year I would not get Bob Stockler's "Birthy Hapday" message which I had gotten about 25 years in a row.... thanks for knowing and at 60 I'm not sure thanking you for divulging it is good or bad.... Ah hell, it's good.. 61 years around the sun.... and I feel every ache and pain of it!? :-)
?
John
?
P.S. They've asked me to do a set at the club on Saturday night...? I think I'll work up Happy Birthday To Me... Happy Birthday To Me...? Happy Birthday Dear Guru.... :-)? :-)??? Okay, okay, so I'm not a Guru... who will know?
?
:-)
?
Happy B-day youngster.? Actually you are only 4 months younger than me.
>
>Seriously, have a great day.
>
>Rick?Hane
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.celestial.com/pipermail/filepro-list/attachments/20100303/ae78b545/attachment.html 

From john at valar.com  Wed Mar  3 20:32:17 2010
From: john at valar.com (John Esak)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 23:32:17 -0500
Subject: Birthday coming soon
In-Reply-To: <662839.7338.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <201003040433.o244WxJ4006471@admin114.securesites.net>

Thanks Richard... I thought you were much younger...
 
You know what... these days compliments don't even help, do they?  :-)
 
 


  _____  

From: Richard Hane [mailto:yoresoft at sbcglobal.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 11:23 PM
To: john at valar.com; filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
Subject: Re: Birthday coming soon



 


  _____  

From: John Esak <john at valar.com>
To: fplist <filepro-list at lists.celestial.com>
Sent: Wed, March 3, 2010 9:40:37 PM
Subject: Birthday coming soon


>>>


From: filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.com
[mailto:filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.com] On Behalf
Of Bob Thomason
Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 10:29 PM
To: fplist
Subject: Birthday coming soon


Did I just see where John Esak's got a birthday coming soon??  Happy
pre-Birthday dude!!
 
Warmly,
Bob

<<<<<
 
 
Now how in the world would you know that?  I was just thinking that this
year I would not get Bob Stockler's "Birthy Hapday" message which I had
gotten about 25 years in a row.... thanks for knowing and at 60 I'm not sure
thanking you for divulging it is good or bad.... Ah hell, it's good.. 61
years around the sun.... and I feel every ache and pain of it!  :-)
 
John
 
P.S. They've asked me to do a set at the club on Saturday night...  I think
I'll work up Happy Birthday To Me... Happy Birthday To Me...  Happy Birthday
Dear Guru.... :-)  :-)    Okay, okay, so I'm not a Guru... who will know?
 
:-)
 

Happy B-day youngster.  Actually you are only 4 months younger than me.
 
Seriously, have a great day.
 
Rick Hane
 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.celestial.com/pipermail/filepro-list/attachments/20100303/ceedbf61/attachment.html 

From ken.m.cole at gmail.com  Wed Mar  3 20:37:46 2010
From: ken.m.cole at gmail.com (Ken Cole)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 14:37:46 +1000
Subject: Birthday coming soon
In-Reply-To: <201003040433.o244WxJ4006471@admin114.securesites.net>
References: <662839.7338.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<201003040433.o244WxJ4006471@admin114.securesites.net>
Message-ID: <94928a911003032037r48683dc9heb9c52a23496aadb@mail.gmail.com>

Happy birthday John.

I will have to rangle another "working" trip the the US so we can have
a beer to celebrate.

It must be time you came down under to visit all us FP'ers who live
upside down. :-)

Especially now you are retired and have plenty of time on your hands
no doubt. :-)

Cheers

Ken

On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 2:32 PM, John Esak <john at valar.com> wrote:
> Thanks Richard... I thought you were much younger...
>
> You know what... these days compliments don't even help, do they?? :-)
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Richard Hane [mailto:yoresoft at sbcglobal.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 11:23 PM
> To: john at valar.com; filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> Subject: Re: Birthday coming soon
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: John Esak <john at valar.com>
> To: fplist <filepro-list at lists.celestial.com>
> Sent: Wed, March 3, 2010 9:40:37 PM
> Subject: Birthday coming soon
>
>>>>
>
> From: filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.com
> [mailto:filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.com] On Behalf
> Of Bob Thomason
> Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 10:29 PM
> To: fplist
> Subject: Birthday coming soon
>
> Did I just see where John Esak's got a birthday coming?soon??? Happy
> pre-Birthday dude!!
>
> Warmly,
> Bob
>
> <<<<<
>
>
> Now how in the world would you know that?? I was just thinking that this
> year I would not get Bob Stockler's "Birthy Hapday" message which I had
> gotten about 25 years in a row.... thanks for knowing and at 60 I'm not sure
> thanking you for divulging it is good or bad.... Ah hell, it's good.. 61
> years around the sun.... and I feel every ache and pain of it!? :-)
>
> John
>
> P.S. They've asked me to do a set at the club on Saturday night...? I think
> I'll work up Happy Birthday To Me... Happy Birthday To Me...? Happy Birthday
> Dear Guru.... :-)? :-)??? Okay, okay, so I'm not a Guru... who will know?
>
> :-)
>
>
> Happy B-day youngster.? Actually you are only 4 months younger than me.
>
> Seriously, have a great day.
>
> Rick?Hane
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing list
> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
>
>

From john at valar.com  Wed Mar  3 20:48:43 2010
From: john at valar.com (John Esak)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 23:48:43 -0500
Subject: Birthday coming soon
In-Reply-To: <94928a911003032037r48683dc9heb9c52a23496aadb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201003040449.o244nP7N012233@admin114.securesites.net>

 
Hi Ken,

Thanks.  I'm about 1 hour from Philadelphia, 2.5 hours from NYC. I'm old
enough to buy lots of beer.  You're on. The train stops about 4 blocks from
my apartment, so it isn't inconceivable if you are in either city.

As for coming down to Oz... I have made it a "must-do-2010" thing.  I'm
planning on Christmas time.  The exact dates will depend on when and where
John Williamson will be doing concerts.  I would not go to Australia without
being able to hear him at least once. Don't care where, but would like to
hear him in his own neck of the woods, up in Brisbane ... Your stomping
ground.  You have a huge country though, so if it works out that he is only
in Perth... Well, we'll see. :-)  Obviously, I'm going to visit Sydney, so
maybe I'll have to see him there, but if he is playing anywhere within
reasonable flight patterns, I'll plan it.  When it gets close, I will get
your coordinates and take you out for that beer... But I've heard steaks can
be pretty good down under, too, so let's make it dinner.

I really am going to spend some time over the summer working out a good tour
of your country.  I've been meaning to get there for a long time now, and I
want to do it when I'm still young (at heart if nothing else. :-). :-)

Do they allow seiing eye tea cup Chihuahuas in the hotels down under?

John


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Cole [mailto:ken.m.cole at gmail.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 11:38 PM
> To: john at valar.com
> Cc: filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> Subject: Re: Birthday coming soon
> 
> Happy birthday John.
> 
> I will have to rangle another "working" trip the the US so we can have
> a beer to celebrate.
> 
> It must be time you came down under to visit all us FP'ers who live
> upside down. :-)
> 
> Especially now you are retired and have plenty of time on your hands
> no doubt. :-)
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Ken
> 
> On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 2:32 PM, John Esak <john at valar.com> wrote:
> > Thanks Richard... I thought you were much younger...
> >
> > You know what... these days compliments don't even help, do 
> they?? :-)
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Richard Hane [mailto:yoresoft at sbcglobal.net]
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 11:23 PM
> > To: john at valar.com; filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> > Subject: Re: Birthday coming soon
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: John Esak <john at valar.com>
> > To: fplist <filepro-list at lists.celestial.com>
> > Sent: Wed, March 3, 2010 9:40:37 PM
> > Subject: Birthday coming soon
> >
> >>>>
> >
> > From: filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.com
> > 
> [mailto:filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.co
m] On Behalf
> > Of Bob Thomason
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 10:29 PM
> > To: fplist
> > Subject: Birthday coming soon
> >
> > Did I just see where John Esak's got a birthday coming?soon??? Happy
> > pre-Birthday dude!!
> >
> > Warmly,
> > Bob
> >
> > <<<<<
> >
> >
> > Now how in the world would you know that?? I was just 
> thinking that this
> > year I would not get Bob Stockler's "Birthy Hapday" message 
> which I had
> > gotten about 25 years in a row.... thanks for knowing and 
> at 60 I'm not sure
> > thanking you for divulging it is good or bad.... Ah hell, 
> it's good.. 61
> > years around the sun.... and I feel every ache and pain of it!? :-)
> >
> > John
> >
> > P.S. They've asked me to do a set at the club on Saturday 
> night...? I think
> > I'll work up Happy Birthday To Me... Happy Birthday To 
> Me...? Happy Birthday
> > Dear Guru.... :-)? :-)??? Okay, okay, so I'm not a Guru... 
> who will know?
> >
> > :-)
> >
> >
> > Happy B-day youngster.? Actually you are only 4 months 
> younger than me.
> >
> > Seriously, have a great day.
> >
> > Rick?Hane
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Filepro-list mailing list
> > Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> > http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
> >
> >
> 


From john at valar.com  Wed Mar  3 22:18:32 2010
From: john at valar.com (John Esak)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 01:18:32 -0500
Subject: Birthday coming soon
In-Reply-To: <94928a911003032129p52d99b3r632e5de0706d7074@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201003040619.o246JEOJ041453@admin114.securesites.net>

Thanks for the link... I'll keep you up to date... And you do vice versa.

Thanks

John
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Cole [mailto:ken.m.cole at gmail.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 12:29 AM
> To: john at valar.com
> Subject: Re: Birthday coming soon
> 
> John,
> 
> That is great news mate, it will be great to get you down here.
> 
> You won't have to worry about the seeing eye tea cup Chihuahua as
> there will be plenty of us around to keep you entertained and on the
> straight and narrow.
> 
> John's Gig Guide, http://www.johnwilliamson.com.au/html/gigguide.html,
> only has events up to September at this stage.
> 
> There is a three day Country Music festival here in Brisbane in May,
> well just outside Brisbane, and he is appearing at that but that is a
> little early for you.
> 
> Check his gig guide closer to the date.
> 
> We will definitely have a steak and some beer mate don't you 
> worry about that.
> 
> Stay well and hopefully we will catch up soon.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Ken
> 
> On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 2:48 PM, John Esak <john at valar.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Ken,
> >
> > Thanks. ?I'm about 1 hour from Philadelphia, 2.5 hours from 
> NYC. I'm old
> > enough to buy lots of beer. ?You're on. The train stops 
> about 4 blocks from
> > my apartment, so it isn't inconceivable if you are in either city.
> >
> > As for coming down to Oz... I have made it a "must-do-2010" 
> thing. ?I'm
> > planning on Christmas time. ?The exact dates will depend on 
> when and where
> > John Williamson will be doing concerts. ?I would not go to 
> Australia without
> > being able to hear him at least once. Don't care where, but 
> would like to
> > hear him in his own neck of the woods, up in Brisbane ... 
> Your stomping
> > ground. ?You have a huge country though, so if it works out 
> that he is only
> > in Perth... Well, we'll see. :-) ?Obviously, I'm going to 
> visit Sydney, so
> > maybe I'll have to see him there, but if he is playing 
> anywhere within
> > reasonable flight patterns, I'll plan it. ?When it gets 
> close, I will get
> > your coordinates and take you out for that beer... But I've 
> heard steaks can
> > be pretty good down under, too, so let's make it dinner.
> >
> > I really am going to spend some time over the summer 
> working out a good tour
> > of your country. ?I've been meaning to get there for a long 
> time now, and I
> > want to do it when I'm still young (at heart if nothing 
> else. :-). :-)
> >
> > Do they allow seiing eye tea cup Chihuahuas in the hotels 
> down under?
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Ken Cole [mailto:ken.m.cole at gmail.com]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 11:38 PM
> >> To: john at valar.com
> >> Cc: filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> >> Subject: Re: Birthday coming soon
> >>
> >> Happy birthday John.
> >>
> >> I will have to rangle another "working" trip the the US so 
> we can have
> >> a beer to celebrate.
> >>
> >> It must be time you came down under to visit all us FP'ers who live
> >> upside down. :-)
> >>
> >> Especially now you are retired and have plenty of time on 
> your hands
> >> no doubt. :-)
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >>
> >> Ken
> >>
> >> On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 2:32 PM, John Esak <john at valar.com> wrote:
> >> > Thanks Richard... I thought you were much younger...
> >> >
> >> > You know what... these days compliments don't even help, do
> >> they?? :-)
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ________________________________
> >> > From: Richard Hane [mailto:yoresoft at sbcglobal.net]
> >> > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 11:23 PM
> >> > To: john at valar.com; filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> >> > Subject: Re: Birthday coming soon
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ________________________________
> >> > From: John Esak <john at valar.com>
> >> > To: fplist <filepro-list at lists.celestial.com>
> >> > Sent: Wed, March 3, 2010 9:40:37 PM
> >> > Subject: Birthday coming soon
> >> >
> >> >>>>
> >> >
> >> > From: filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.com
> >> >
> >> [mailto:filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.co
> > m] On Behalf
> >> > Of Bob Thomason
> >> > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 10:29 PM
> >> > To: fplist
> >> > Subject: Birthday coming soon
> >> >
> >> > Did I just see where John Esak's got a birthday coming?
soon??? Happy
> >> > pre-Birthday dude!!
> >> >
> >> > Warmly,
> >> > Bob
> >> >
> >> > <<<<<
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Now how in the world would you know that?? I was just
> >> thinking that this
> >> > year I would not get Bob Stockler's "Birthy Hapday" message
> >> which I had
> >> > gotten about 25 years in a row.... thanks for knowing and
> >> at 60 I'm not sure
> >> > thanking you for divulging it is good or bad.... Ah hell,
> >> it's good.. 61
> >> > years around the sun.... and I feel every ache and pain 
> of it!? :-)
> >> >
> >> > John
> >> >
> >> > P.S. They've asked me to do a set at the club on Saturday
> >> night...? I think
> >> > I'll work up Happy Birthday To Me... Happy Birthday To
> >> Me...? Happy Birthday
> >> > Dear Guru.... :-)? :-)??? Okay, okay, so I'm not a Guru...
> >> who will know?
> >> >
> >> > :-)
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Happy B-day youngster.? Actually you are only 4 months
> >> younger than me.
> >> >
> >> > Seriously, have a great day.
> >> >
> >> > Rick?Hane
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Filepro-list mailing list
> >> > Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> >> > http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Filepro-list mailing list
> > Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> > http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
> >
> 


From john at valar.com  Thu Mar  4 06:11:15 2010
From: john at valar.com (John Esak)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 09:11:15 -0500
Subject: NEW BLOB FIX!!!!   RE: Birthday coming soon
In-Reply-To: <78156D18332F4747905790E0E32F2B7D@Dpc9150>
Message-ID: <201003041411.o24EBvdF089235@admin114.securesites.net>

 Ken, 

Hold on with the birthday stuff... This is important...

There is a MAJOR (and I mean MAJOR) blob fix in the latest filePro. I
discovered the problem about 6 months ago when our blobs were just getting
SO huge.  The fix brings blobs down to exactly the size they should be
(which is actually quite small)... You can easily calculate how big your
blobs should be with a simple multiplication in the exact same way you
calculate key size. I'm talking about using blob fields as MEMO edit type
here. The Blob file has space added to it in 8k chunks. So, as your text
moves up past an 8k boundary, a new 8k chunk is attached to the file.  If
your blobs are gigantic, hell if they are simply bigger than the amount of
text you have per memo dividing exactly into the blob file size...
Remembering that you might have just 1 extra 8k chunk for the first
available free space... Then you NEED the latest version.  Actually, this is
an absolute bug, if you use the MEMO edit type in your map, this error
*will* happen to you.  By getting the new version (I guess that would be
5.6.10 now or is it 11?) you can run the new "blobfix" program that comes
with it, and shrink/fix your blob files on the order of 2Gb files become 3Mb
and similar.  It simply makes the blobs infinitely more stable. There was a
time when the blobs I used as MEMO type were so unstable that I always
passed and used some other text saving method. Now, I use the MEMO function
everywhere and they are solid as anything else I could muster up.  It's
actually nice to have the feature. Now all we need is a better printing
function for them. A while back I posted a method for being able to TAB into
and out of MEMO fields on the screen.  I feel they need to act similar to
the way other fields on the screen work... But that is just my hang-up.
There are lots of great uses for the MEMO exactly as they are.  One last
thing... I'm not sure if the PageUp and PageDwn while in a text (MEMO) field
has been fixed. In previous versions it didn't work, and I think that is a
must fix to make the MEMO editor have the look and feel anyone would expect.
Ken told me one time that he thought it should work and was surprised to
find out it didn't, so it may have been another bug fixed in the new
version. I didn't put it in as a specific bug report, so maybe that's still
hanging out, don't know.  

But if you're having problems with MEMO/BLOB's being unstable and WAY too
big, you need to get the new version. I think anything to do with file size,
(like ddefine and other executables have the fix in them.

Now, birthday stuff. 51 to 61 was a horrendous decade for me... At 50 is
when I lost my sight. It kind of ruined any of the good stuff that was
happening else wise like grandkids, having enough money for things I always
wanted, making a nice house and home... Relaxing a little, etc.  You I hope,
should be doing all those things and really enjoying it. But, don't let
those muscles go down. I remember when you could do *pull-ups* on my door
frame... Hanging by your fingertips!!!  Go on an Outreach trip or
something... Just don't fall into Mt. Saint hellen.  :-)

Funny, you're listing to blues lately... Remember when we loved the Rock so
much. And there were great bands to go hear like Happy The Man.  I, too, am
playing a lot of blues. (I still love Blue Grass, and am going to see
Allisyn Krauss in May at Gettysburg...) but Saturday night I'll be playing
Rock Me Babe, and A Man In Love (a Clapton tune on "Money And Cigarettes")
also, two of my own bluesy things... Oh, yeah, also Cripple Creek (The
Band... Old standby's like that just never die.  "She told me just to come
on by if there was anything that she could do..." [and she could do a lot of
things! :-)]).

Am I getting punctuation crazy in my old age?  Truly, if it matters, over 60
and I don't feel like it's old age... Not until I try and get up after
sitting on the floor for a while... Or when my fingers cramp up after two
songs... Or any number of other things... But inside... In my head, where it
counts... I'm about 25.  :-)

Take care,

John


> -----Original Message-----
> From: ken white [mailto:kenwhite at verizon.net] 
> Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 8:33 AM
> To: john at valar.com
> Subject: Re: Birthday coming soon
> 
> 61 - woof,  that must mean I will be 51 soon.
> 
> What are differences between 48 and 51    ?
> Quantity of Hair and Hair color
> Need glasses to read
> Tinnitus
> Injury's take longer to heal
> Finding muscles not used in years to shovel snow
> I listen to the blues more than rock and roll
> 
> What do I have to look forward to over the next 10 years?
> 
> On a side note:  How is the quality of the current release of 
> filepro?  DSI 
> has random blob/memo corruption problems on 5.6.06D4,  
> thinking of upgrading 
> them over the weekend with my fingers crossed.
> 
> Happy Bday
> 
> 
>  
> 


From kenwhite at verizon.net  Thu Mar  4 06:21:51 2010
From: kenwhite at verizon.net (ken white)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2010 09:21:51 -0500
Subject: NEW BLOB FIX!!!!   RE: Birthday coming soon
In-Reply-To: <201003041411.o24EBvdF089235@admin114.securesites.net>
References: <201003041411.o24EBvdF089235@admin114.securesites.net>
Message-ID: <0AEFCD00860F4C1BAE5674E8088ECC3A@Dpc9150>

My issue is not the size of the blob.  but for some odd reason

record 13 has a memo
record 12 has a memo

At some point in time the memo's lose their association with the correct 
record#.

Record 13 memo appears on record 12.  Edit the memo on record 12 and memo 
associated with record 13 is also changed.  It is as the memo is now linked 
to two records.  The original value of one of the memo's is lost forever. 
blobfix fixes the link, it does not restore the contents of the original 
memo.  After blob fix the  memos can be edited correctly.

I remember the memo size issue but the current version - 1 had more issues 
than one can count if I remember correctly.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "John Esak" <john at valar.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 9:11 AM
To: <filepro-list at lists.celestial.com>
Subject: NEW BLOB FIX!!!!   RE: Birthday coming soon

> Ken,
>
> Hold on with the birthday stuff... This is important...
>
> There is a MAJOR (and I mean MAJOR) blob fix in the latest filePro. I
> discovered the problem about 6 months ago when our blobs were just getting
> SO huge.  The fix brings blobs down to exactly the size they should be
> (which is actually quite small)... You can easily calculate how big your
> blobs should be with a simple multiplication in the exact same way you
> calculate key size. I'm talking about using blob fields as MEMO edit type
> here. The Blob file has space added to it in 8k chunks. So, as your text
> moves up past an 8k boundary, a new 8k chunk is attached to the file.  If
> your blobs are gigantic, hell if they are simply bigger than the amount of
> text you have per memo dividing exactly into the blob file size...
> Remembering that you might have just 1 extra 8k chunk for the first
> available free space... Then you NEED the latest version.  Actually, this 
> is
> an absolute bug, if you use the MEMO edit type in your map, this error
> *will* happen to you.  By getting the new version (I guess that would be
> 5.6.10 now or is it 11?) you can run the new "blobfix" program that comes
> with it, and shrink/fix your blob files on the order of 2Gb files become 
> 3Mb
> and similar.  It simply makes the blobs infinitely more stable. There was 
> a
> time when the blobs I used as MEMO type were so unstable that I always
> passed and used some other text saving method. Now, I use the MEMO 
> function
> everywhere and they are solid as anything else I could muster up.  It's
> actually nice to have the feature. Now all we need is a better printing
> function for them. A while back I posted a method for being able to TAB 
> into
> and out of MEMO fields on the screen.  I feel they need to act similar to
> the way other fields on the screen work... But that is just my hang-up.
> There are lots of great uses for the MEMO exactly as they are.  One last
> thing... I'm not sure if the PageUp and PageDwn while in a text (MEMO) 
> field
> has been fixed. In previous versions it didn't work, and I think that is a
> must fix to make the MEMO editor have the look and feel anyone would 
> expect.
> Ken told me one time that he thought it should work and was surprised to
> find out it didn't, so it may have been another bug fixed in the new
> version. I didn't put it in as a specific bug report, so maybe that's 
> still
> hanging out, don't know.
>
> But if you're having problems with MEMO/BLOB's being unstable and WAY too
> big, you need to get the new version. I think anything to do with file 
> size,
> (like ddefine and other executables have the fix in them.
>
> Now, birthday stuff. 51 to 61 was a horrendous decade for me... At 50 is
> when I lost my sight. It kind of ruined any of the good stuff that was
> happening else wise like grandkids, having enough money for things I 
> always
> wanted, making a nice house and home... Relaxing a little, etc.  You I 
> hope,
> should be doing all those things and really enjoying it. But, don't let
> those muscles go down. I remember when you could do *pull-ups* on my door
> frame... Hanging by your fingertips!!!  Go on an Outreach trip or
> something... Just don't fall into Mt. Saint hellen.  :-)
>
> Funny, you're listing to blues lately... Remember when we loved the Rock 
> so
> much. And there were great bands to go hear like Happy The Man.  I, too, 
> am
> playing a lot of blues. (I still love Blue Grass, and am going to see
> Allisyn Krauss in May at Gettysburg...) but Saturday night I'll be playing
> Rock Me Babe, and A Man In Love (a Clapton tune on "Money And Cigarettes")
> also, two of my own bluesy things... Oh, yeah, also Cripple Creek (The
> Band... Old standby's like that just never die.  "She told me just to come
> on by if there was anything that she could do..." [and she could do a lot 
> of
> things! :-)]).
>
> Am I getting punctuation crazy in my old age?  Truly, if it matters, over 
> 60
> and I don't feel like it's old age... Not until I try and get up after
> sitting on the floor for a while... Or when my fingers cramp up after two
> songs... Or any number of other things... But inside... In my head, where 
> it
> counts... I'm about 25.  :-)
>
> Take care,
>
> John
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ken white [mailto:kenwhite at verizon.net]
>> Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 8:33 AM
>> To: john at valar.com
>> Subject: Re: Birthday coming soon
>>
>> 61 - woof,  that must mean I will be 51 soon.
>>
>> What are differences between 48 and 51    ?
>> Quantity of Hair and Hair color
>> Need glasses to read
>> Tinnitus
>> Injury's take longer to heal
>> Finding muscles not used in years to shovel snow
>> I listen to the blues more than rock and roll
>>
>> What do I have to look forward to over the next 10 years?
>>
>> On a side note:  How is the quality of the current release of
>> filepro?  DSI
>> has random blob/memo corruption problems on 5.6.06D4,
>> thinking of upgrading
>> them over the weekend with my fingers crossed.
>>
>> Happy Bday
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing list
> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list 


From rkreiss at verizon.net  Thu Mar  4 14:14:46 2010
From: rkreiss at verizon.net (Richard Kreiss)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2010 17:14:46 -0500
Subject: NEW BLOB FIX!!!!   RE: Birthday coming soon
In-Reply-To: <201003041411.o24EBvdF089235@admin114.securesites.net>
References: <78156D18332F4747905790E0E32F2B7D@Dpc9150>
	<201003041411.o24EBvdF089235@admin114.securesites.net>
Message-ID: <000001cabbe8$1a02fa50$4e08eef0$@net>

John,

60 is OK.  The problems start at 63.  That's when everything seems to start
failing.  I am 66, will be 67 in May and have too many parts removed.  No
doctor has offered to put anything in, just take it out.

I am still doing things many younger men won't or can't do.  you're correct,
age is a state of mind, think young, stay active and do the things you want.
That's what make life fun.

Happy birthday.

Richard

PS: How about meeting in Philadelphia for a steak sandwich?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: filepro-list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com
[mailto:filepro-
> list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com] On Behalf Of John
Esak
> Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 9:11 AM
> To: filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> Subject: NEW BLOB FIX!!!! RE: Birthday coming soon
> 
>  Ken,
> 
> Hold on with the birthday stuff... This is important...
> 
> There is a MAJOR (and I mean MAJOR) blob fix in the latest filePro. I
> discovered the problem about 6 months ago when our blobs were just getting
> SO huge.  The fix brings blobs down to exactly the size they should be
> (which is actually quite small)... You can easily calculate how big your
> blobs should be with a simple multiplication in the exact same way you
> calculate key size. I'm talking about using blob fields as MEMO edit type
> here. The Blob file has space added to it in 8k chunks. So, as your text
> moves up past an 8k boundary, a new 8k chunk is attached to the file.  If
> your blobs are gigantic, hell if they are simply bigger than the amount of
> text you have per memo dividing exactly into the blob file size...
> Remembering that you might have just 1 extra 8k chunk for the first
> available free space... Then you NEED the latest version.  Actually, this
is
> an absolute bug, if you use the MEMO edit type in your map, this error
> *will* happen to you.  By getting the new version (I guess that would be
> 5.6.10 now or is it 11?) you can run the new "blobfix" program that comes
> with it, and shrink/fix your blob files on the order of 2Gb files become
3Mb
> and similar.  It simply makes the blobs infinitely more stable. There was
a
> time when the blobs I used as MEMO type were so unstable that I always
> passed and used some other text saving method. Now, I use the MEMO
> function
> everywhere and they are solid as anything else I could muster up.  It's
> actually nice to have the feature. Now all we need is a better printing
> function for them. A while back I posted a method for being able to TAB
into
> and out of MEMO fields on the screen.  I feel they need to act similar to
> the way other fields on the screen work... But that is just my hang-up.
> There are lots of great uses for the MEMO exactly as they are.  One last
> thing... I'm not sure if the PageUp and PageDwn while in a text (MEMO)
field
> has been fixed. In previous versions it didn't work, and I think that is a
> must fix to make the MEMO editor have the look and feel anyone would
expect.
> Ken told me one time that he thought it should work and was surprised to
> find out it didn't, so it may have been another bug fixed in the new
> version. I didn't put it in as a specific bug report, so maybe that's
still
> hanging out, don't know.
> 
> But if you're having problems with MEMO/BLOB's being unstable and WAY too
> big, you need to get the new version. I think anything to do with file
size,
> (like ddefine and other executables have the fix in them.
> 
> Now, birthday stuff. 51 to 61 was a horrendous decade for me... At 50 is
> when I lost my sight. It kind of ruined any of the good stuff that was
> happening else wise like grandkids, having enough money for things I
always
> wanted, making a nice house and home... Relaxing a little, etc.  You I
hope,
> should be doing all those things and really enjoying it. But, don't let
> those muscles go down. I remember when you could do *pull-ups* on my door
> frame... Hanging by your fingertips!!!  Go on an Outreach trip or
> something... Just don't fall into Mt. Saint hellen.  :-)
> 
> Funny, you're listing to blues lately... Remember when we loved the Rock
so
> much. And there were great bands to go hear like Happy The Man.  I, too,
am
> playing a lot of blues. (I still love Blue Grass, and am going to see
> Allisyn Krauss in May at Gettysburg...) but Saturday night I'll be playing
> Rock Me Babe, and A Man In Love (a Clapton tune on "Money And Cigarettes")
> also, two of my own bluesy things... Oh, yeah, also Cripple Creek (The
> Band... Old standby's like that just never die.  "She told me just to come
> on by if there was anything that she could do..." [and she could do a lot
of
> things! :-)]).
> 
> Am I getting punctuation crazy in my old age?  Truly, if it matters, over
60
> and I don't feel like it's old age... Not until I try and get up after
> sitting on the floor for a while... Or when my fingers cramp up after two
> songs... Or any number of other things... But inside... In my head, where
it
> counts... I'm about 25.  :-)
> 
> Take care,
> 
> John
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ken white [mailto:kenwhite at verizon.net]
> > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 8:33 AM
> > To: john at valar.com
> > Subject: Re: Birthday coming soon
> >
> > 61 - woof,  that must mean I will be 51 soon.
> >
> > What are differences between 48 and 51    ?
> > Quantity of Hair and Hair color
> > Need glasses to read
> > Tinnitus
> > Injury's take longer to heal
> > Finding muscles not used in years to shovel snow
> > I listen to the blues more than rock and roll
> >
> > What do I have to look forward to over the next 10 years?
> >
> > On a side note:  How is the quality of the current release of
> > filepro?  DSI
> > has random blob/memo corruption problems on 5.6.06D4,
> > thinking of upgrading
> > them over the weekend with my fingers crossed.
> >
> > Happy Bday
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing list
> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list



From appl at jpr.com  Thu Mar  4 15:09:57 2010
From: appl at jpr.com (Jean-Pierre A. Radley)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 18:09:57 -0500
Subject: NEW BLOB FIX!!!!   RE: Birthday coming soon
In-Reply-To: <000001cabbe8$1a02fa50$4e08eef0$@net>
References: <78156D18332F4747905790E0E32F2B7D@Dpc9150>
	<201003041411.o24EBvdF089235@admin114.securesites.net>
	<000001cabbe8$1a02fa50$4e08eef0$@net>
Message-ID: <20100304230957.GA8369@jpradley.jpr.com>

Richard Kreiss propounded (on Thu, Mar 04, 2010 at 05:14:46PM -0500):
| John,
|
| 60 is OK.  The problems start at 63.  That's when everything seems to
| start failing.  I am 66, will be 67 in May and have too many parts
| removed.  No doctor has offered to put anything in, just take it out.
|
| I am still doing things many younger men won't or can't do. you're
| correct, age is a state of mind, think young, stay active and do the
| things you want.  That's what make life fun.

What's the big hullaballoo?  I saw no comparable commotion when I turned
78 two Saturdays ago.  But shucks, I recognize that compared to John
Esak, I am just a shrinking violet.

-- 
JP

From yoresoft at sbcglobal.net  Thu Mar  4 14:23:19 2010
From: yoresoft at sbcglobal.net (Richard Hane)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 14:23:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Birthday coming soon
In-Reply-To: <000001cabbe8$1a02fa50$4e08eef0$@net>
References: <78156D18332F4747905790E0E32F2B7D@Dpc9150>
	<201003041411.o24EBvdF089235@admin114.securesites.net>
	<000001cabbe8$1a02fa50$4e08eef0$@net>
Message-ID: <462201.15612.qm@web81403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Gawd isn't this a sad commetary of who uses filePro.? I think we are all over 50, many of us (including Howie) are over 60.

I wonder how old Ken is?????????

When you guys get done with your steak sandwich, hop over to Chicago and I'll take you out for a real pizza & beer.

Rick Hane

?



________________________________
From: Richard Kreiss <rkreiss at verizon.net>
To: john at valar.com; filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
Sent: Thu, March 4, 2010 4:14:46 PM
Subject: RE: NEW BLOB FIX!!!! RE: Birthday coming soon

John,

60 is OK.? The problems start at 63.? That's when everything seems to start
failing.? I am 66, will be 67 in May and have too many parts removed.? No
doctor has offered to put anything in, just take it out.

I am still doing things many younger men won't or can't do.? you're correct,
age is a state of mind, think young, stay active and do the things you want.
That's what make life fun.

Happy birthday.

Richard

PS: How about meeting in Philadelphia for a steak sandwich?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: filepro-list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com
[mailto:filepro-
> list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com] On Behalf Of John
Esak
> Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 9:11 AM
> To: filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> Subject: NEW BLOB FIX!!!! RE: Birthday coming soon
> 
>? Ken,
> 
> Hold on with the birthday stuff... This is important...
> 
> There is a MAJOR (and I mean MAJOR) blob fix in the latest filePro. I
> discovered the problem about 6 months ago when our blobs were just getting
> SO huge.? The fix brings blobs down to exactly the size they should be
> (which is actually quite small)... You can easily calculate how big your
> blobs should be with a simple multiplication in the exact same way you
> calculate key size. I'm talking about using blob fields as MEMO edit type
> here. The Blob file has space added to it in 8k chunks. So, as your text
> moves up past an 8k boundary, a new 8k chunk is attached to the file.? If
> your blobs are gigantic, hell if they are simply bigger than the amount of
> text you have per memo dividing exactly into the blob file size...
> Remembering that you might have just 1 extra 8k chunk for the first
> available free space... Then you NEED the latest version.? Actually, this
is
> an absolute bug, if you use the MEMO edit type in your map, this error
> *will* happen to you.? By getting the new version (I guess that would be
> 5.6.10 now or is it 11?) you can run the new "blobfix" program that comes
> with it, and shrink/fix your blob files on the order of 2Gb files become
3Mb
> and similar.? It simply makes the blobs infinitely more stable. There was
a
> time when the blobs I used as MEMO type were so unstable that I always
> passed and used some other text saving method. Now, I use the MEMO
> function
> everywhere and they are solid as anything else I could muster up.? It's
> actually nice to have the feature. Now all we need is a better printing
> function for them. A while back I posted a method for being able to TAB
into
> and out of MEMO fields on the screen.? I feel they need to act similar to
> the way other fields on the screen work... But that is just my hang-up.
> There are lots of great uses for the MEMO exactly as they are.? One last
> thing... I'm not sure if the PageUp and PageDwn while in a text (MEMO)
field
> has been fixed. In previous versions it didn't work, and I think that is a
> must fix to make the MEMO editor have the look and feel anyone would
expect.
> Ken told me one time that he thought it should work and was surprised to
> find out it didn't, so it may have been another bug fixed in the new
> version. I didn't put it in as a specific bug report, so maybe that's
still
> hanging out, don't know.
> 
> But if you're having problems with MEMO/BLOB's being unstable and WAY too
> big, you need to get the new version. I think anything to do with file
size,
> (like ddefine and other executables have the fix in them.
> 
> Now, birthday stuff. 51 to 61 was a horrendous decade for me... At 50 is
> when I lost my sight. It kind of ruined any of the good stuff that was
> happening else wise like grandkids, having enough money for things I
always
> wanted, making a nice house and home... Relaxing a little, etc.? You I
hope,
> should be doing all those things and really enjoying it. But, don't let
> those muscles go down. I remember when you could do *pull-ups* on my door
> frame... Hanging by your fingertips!!!? Go on an Outreach trip or
> something... Just don't fall into Mt. Saint hellen.? :-)
> 
> Funny, you're listing to blues lately... Remember when we loved the Rock
so
> much. And there were great bands to go hear like Happy The Man.? I, too,
am
> playing a lot of blues. (I still love Blue Grass, and am going to see
> Allisyn Krauss in May at Gettysburg...) but Saturday night I'll be playing
> Rock Me Babe, and A Man In Love (a Clapton tune on "Money And Cigarettes")
> also, two of my own bluesy things... Oh, yeah, also Cripple Creek (The
> Band... Old standby's like that just never die.? "She told me just to come
> on by if there was anything that she could do..." [and she could do a lot
of
> things! :-)]).
> 
> Am I getting punctuation crazy in my old age?? Truly, if it matters, over
60
> and I don't feel like it's old age... Not until I try and get up after
> sitting on the floor for a while... Or when my fingers cramp up after two
> songs... Or any number of other things... But inside... In my head, where
it
> counts... I'm about 25.? :-)
> 
> Take care,
> 
> John
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ken white [mailto:kenwhite at verizon.net]
> > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 8:33 AM
> > To: john at valar.com
> > Subject: Re: Birthday coming soon
> >
> > 61 - woof,? that must mean I will be 51 soon.
> >
> > What are differences between 48 and 51? ? ?
> > Quantity of Hair and Hair color
> > Need glasses to read
> > Tinnitus
> > Injury's take longer to heal
> > Finding muscles not used in years to shovel snow
> > I listen to the blues more than rock and roll
> >
> > What do I have to look forward to over the next 10 years?
> >
> > On a side note:? How is the quality of the current release of
> > filepro?? DSI
> > has random blob/memo corruption problems on 5.6.06D4,
> > thinking of upgrading
> > them over the weekend with my fingers crossed.
> >
> > Happy Bday
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing list
> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list


_______________________________________________
Filepro-list mailing list
Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.celestial.com/pipermail/filepro-list/attachments/20100304/fc710b45/attachment-0001.html 

From EdOlmstead at ofpcinc.com  Thu Mar  4 15:19:38 2010
From: EdOlmstead at ofpcinc.com (Ed Olmstead)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 18:19:38 -0500
Subject: NEW BLOB FIX!!!!   RE: Birthday coming soon
In-Reply-To: <20100304230957.GA8369@jpradley.jpr.com>
References: <78156D18332F4747905790E0E32F2B7D@Dpc9150>	<201003041411.o24EBvdF089235@admin114.securesites.net>	<000001cabbe8$1a02fa50$4e08eef0$@net>
	<20100304230957.GA8369@jpradley.jpr.com>
Message-ID: <005501cabbf1$2971b270$7c551750$@com>

Ah....but John is The Guru and that makes him special.

-----Original Message-----
From: filepro-list-bounces+edolmstead=ofpcinc.com at lists.celestial.com
[mailto:filepro-list-bounces+edolmstead=ofpcinc.com at lists.celestial.com] On
Behalf Of Jean-Pierre A. Radley
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 18:10 PM
To: FilePro Mailing List
Subject: Re: NEW BLOB FIX!!!! RE: Birthday coming soon

Richard Kreiss propounded (on Thu, Mar 04, 2010 at 05:14:46PM -0500):
| John,
|
| 60 is OK.  The problems start at 63.  That's when everything seems to
| start failing.  I am 66, will be 67 in May and have too many parts
| removed.  No doctor has offered to put anything in, just take it out.
|
| I am still doing things many younger men won't or can't do. you're
| correct, age is a state of mind, think young, stay active and do the
| things you want.  That's what make life fun.

What's the big hullaballoo?  I saw no comparable commotion when I turned
78 two Saturdays ago.  But shucks, I recognize that compared to John
Esak, I am just a shrinking violet.

-- 
JP
_______________________________________________
Filepro-list mailing list
Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list




From kenbrody at spamcop.net  Thu Mar  4 15:25:55 2010
From: kenbrody at spamcop.net (Kenneth Brody)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2010 18:25:55 -0500
Subject: NEW BLOB FIX!!!!   RE: Birthday coming soon
In-Reply-To: <000001cabbe8$1a02fa50$4e08eef0$@net>
References: <78156D18332F4747905790E0E32F2B7D@Dpc9150>
	<201003041411.o24EBvdF089235@admin114.securesites.net>
	<000001cabbe8$1a02fa50$4e08eef0$@net>
Message-ID: <4B904183.7010003@spamcop.net>

On 3/4/2010 5:14 PM, Richard Kreiss wrote:
[...]
> PS: How about meeting in Philadelphia for a steak sandwich?
[...]

Pat's or Geno's?

-- 
Kenneth Brody

From kenbrody at spamcop.net  Thu Mar  4 15:26:57 2010
From: kenbrody at spamcop.net (Kenneth Brody)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2010 18:26:57 -0500
Subject: Birthday coming soon
In-Reply-To: <462201.15612.qm@web81403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <78156D18332F4747905790E0E32F2B7D@Dpc9150>
	<201003041411.o24EBvdF089235@admin114.securesites.net>
	<000001cabbe8$1a02fa50$4e08eef0$@net>
	<462201.15612.qm@web81403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4B9041C1.60609@spamcop.net>

On 3/4/2010 5:23 PM, Richard Hane wrote:
> Gawd isn't this a sad commetary of who uses filePro.  I think we are all over 50, many of us (including Howie) are over 60.

Strange.  Howie looks much younger on TV.  :-)

> I wonder how old Ken is?????????

Under 50.

[...]

-- 
Kenneth Brody

From rkreiss at verizon.net  Thu Mar  4 15:35:00 2010
From: rkreiss at verizon.net (Richard Kreiss)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2010 18:35:00 -0500
Subject: NEW BLOB FIX!!!!   RE: Birthday coming soon
In-Reply-To: <4B904183.7010003@spamcop.net>
References: <78156D18332F4747905790E0E32F2B7D@Dpc9150>
	<201003041411.o24EBvdF089235@admin114.securesites.net>
	<000001cabbe8$1a02fa50$4e08eef0$@net> <4B904183.7010003@spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <000701cabbf3$4f65d040$ee3170c0$@net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kenneth Brody [mailto:kenbrody at spamcop.net]
> Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 6:26 PM
> To: Richard Kreiss
> Cc: filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> Subject: Re: NEW BLOB FIX!!!! RE: Birthday coming soon
> 
> On 3/4/2010 5:14 PM, Richard Kreiss wrote:
> [...]
> > PS: How about meeting in Philadelphia for a steak sandwich?
> [...]
> 
> Pat's or Geno's?
> 
> --
> Kenneth Brody

Neither,

Delessandro's Steaks 
Neighborhood: Roxborough
600 Wendover Street
Philadelphia, PA 19128
(215) 482-5407
www.Dalessandros.com

Wendover &Henry Ave.

Check reviews http://www.yelp.com/biz/dalessandros-steaks-philadelphia

They make a steak sandwich with sauce and onions that are the best.  When I
was in school and living a few blocks away, I would purchase 2 steak
sandwiches.  I would eat one on the way home and then have the other one
when I got to the apartment.

Angie Harmon, how is from Philadelphia, agrees the Delessandro's has the
best steak sandwich.  She said so on Jay Leno's show.

Richard



From mschw at athenet.net  Thu Mar  4 15:45:37 2010
From: mschw at athenet.net (Mike Schwartz)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 17:45:37 -0600
Subject: NEW BLOB FIX!!!!   RE: Birthday coming soon
In-Reply-To: <20100304230957.GA8369@jpradley.jpr.com>
References: <78156D18332F4747905790E0E32F2B7D@Dpc9150>	<201003041411.o24EBvdF089235@admin114.securesites.net>	<000001cabbe8$1a02fa50$4e08eef0$@net>
	<20100304230957.GA8369@jpradley.jpr.com>
Message-ID: <00be01cabbf4$cbba9ee0$632fdca0$@net>

> What's the big hullaballoo?  I saw no comparable commotion when I
> turned
> 78 two Saturdays ago.  But shucks, I recognize that compared to John
> Esak, I am just a shrinking violet.
> 
> --
> JP

    Happy Birthday, JP!  (Background sounds of big hullaballoo starting in
Wisconsin...)

    I think I'll crack open a bottle of wine for supper to celebrate all the
birthdays!

    You guys all keep feeding me this info about what it's like to be in
your 60's and 70's.  I'm right behind you!

Mike Schwartz






From brian at aljex.com  Thu Mar  4 16:20:46 2010
From: brian at aljex.com (Brian K. White)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2010 19:20:46 -0500
Subject: Birthday coming soon
In-Reply-To: <462201.15612.qm@web81403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <78156D18332F4747905790E0E32F2B7D@Dpc9150>	<201003041411.o24EBvdF089235@admin114.securesites.net>	<000001cabbe8$1a02fa50$4e08eef0$@net>
	<462201.15612.qm@web81403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4B904E5E.7070601@aljex.com>

Richard Hane wrote:
> Gawd isn't this a sad commetary of who uses filePro.  I think we are all 
> over 50, many of us (including Howie) are over 60.

40 last month.

-- 
bkw


From ken.m.cole at gmail.com  Thu Mar  4 16:40:54 2010
From: ken.m.cole at gmail.com (Ken Cole)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 10:40:54 +1000
Subject: NEW BLOB FIX!!!! RE: Birthday coming soon
In-Reply-To: <20100304230957.GA8369@jpradley.jpr.com>
References: <78156D18332F4747905790E0E32F2B7D@Dpc9150>
	<201003041411.o24EBvdF089235@admin114.securesites.net>
	<000001cabbe8$1a02fa50$4e08eef0$@net>
	<20100304230957.GA8369@jpradley.jpr.com>
Message-ID: <94928a911003041640m34cb3507ib542eb26a4e9e490@mail.gmail.com>

JP,

a "shrinking violet" is not a phrase I would have every associated with you! :-)

Happy 78th birthday for two Saturdays ago.

Ken

On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Jean-Pierre A. Radley <appl at jpr.com> wrote:
> Richard Kreiss propounded (on Thu, Mar 04, 2010 at 05:14:46PM -0500):
> | John,
> |
> | 60 is OK. ?The problems start at 63. ?That's when everything seems to
> | start failing. ?I am 66, will be 67 in May and have too many parts
> | removed. ?No doctor has offered to put anything in, just take it out.
> |
> | I am still doing things many younger men won't or can't do. you're
> | correct, age is a state of mind, think young, stay active and do the
> | things you want. ?That's what make life fun.
>
> What's the big hullaballoo? ?I saw no comparable commotion when I turned
> 78 two Saturdays ago. ?But shucks, I recognize that compared to John
> Esak, I am just a shrinking violet.
>
> --
> JP
> _______________________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing list
> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
>

From fairlite at fairlite.com  Thu Mar  4 16:52:37 2010
From: fairlite at fairlite.com (Fairlight)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 19:52:37 -0500
Subject: Birthday coming soon
In-Reply-To: <4B904E5E.7070601@aljex.com>;
	from brian@aljex.com on Thu, Mar 04, 2010 at 07:20:46PM -0500
References: <78156D18332F4747905790E0E32F2B7D@Dpc9150>
	<201003041411.o24EBvdF089235@admin114.securesites.net>
	<000001cabbe8$1a02fa50$4e08eef0$@net>
	<462201.15612.qm@web81403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4B904E5E.7070601@aljex.com>
Message-ID: <20100304195237.A13346@iglou.com>

The honourable and venerable Brian K. White spoke thus:
> Richard Hane wrote:
> > Gawd isn't this a sad commetary of who uses filePro.  I think we are all 
> > over 50, many of us (including Howie) are over 60.
> 
> 40 last month.

39 middle of this month.  Don't tell me I'm youngest here...

mark->
-- 
Audio panton, cogito singularis,

From rkreiss at verizon.net  Thu Mar  4 17:36:01 2010
From: rkreiss at verizon.net (Richard Kreiss)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2010 20:36:01 -0500
Subject: Birthday coming soon
In-Reply-To: <462201.15612.qm@web81403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <78156D18332F4747905790E0E32F2B7D@Dpc9150>
	<201003041411.o24EBvdF089235@admin114.securesites.net>
	<000001cabbe8$1a02fa50$4e08eef0$@net>
	<462201.15612.qm@web81403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001001cabc04$37600090$a62001b0$@net>

How about some New England Clam Chowder at the Cape Code room?

 

Richard

 

From: Richard Hane [mailto:yoresoft at sbcglobal.net] 
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 5:23 PM
To: filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
Cc: Richard Kreiss
Subject: RE: Birthday coming soon

 

Gawd isn't this a sad commetary of who uses filePro.  I think we are all
over 50, many of us (including Howie) are over 60.

 

I wonder how old Ken is?????????

 

When you guys get done with your steak sandwich, hop over to Chicago and
I'll take you out for a real pizza & beer.

 

Rick Hane


 

 

  _____  

From: Richard Kreiss <rkreiss at verizon.net>
To: john at valar.com; filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
Sent: Thu, March 4, 2010 4:14:46 PM
Subject: RE: NEW BLOB FIX!!!! RE: Birthday coming soon

John,

60 is OK.  The problems start at 63.  That's when everything seems to start
failing.  I am 66, will be 67 in May and have too many parts removed.  No
doctor has offered to put anything in, just take it out.

I am still doing things many younger men won't or can't do.  you're correct,
age is a state of mind, think young, stay active and do the things you want.
That's what make life fun.

Happy birthday.

Richard

PS: How about meeting in Philadelphia for a steak sandwich?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: filepro-list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com
[mailto:filepro-
> list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com] On Behalf Of John
Esak
> Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 9:11 AM
> To: filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> Subject: NEW BLOB FIX!!!! RE: Birthday coming soon
> 
>  Ken,
> 
> Hold on with the birthday stuff... This is important...
> 
> There is a MAJOR (and I mean MAJOR) blob fix in the latest filePro. I
> discovered the problem about 6 months ago when our blobs were just getting
> SO huge.  The fix brings blobs down to exactly the size they should be
> (which is actually quite small)... You can easily calculate how big your
> blobs should be with a simple multiplication in the exact same way you
> calculate key size. I'm talking about using blob fields as MEMO edit type
> here. The Blob file has space added to it in 8k chunks. So, as your text
> moves up past an 8k boundary, a new 8k chunk is attached to the file.  If
> your blobs are gigantic, hell if they are simply bigger than the amount of
> text you have per memo dividing exactly into the blob file size...
> Remembering that you might have just 1 extra 8k chunk for the first
> available free space... Then you NEED the latest version.  Actually, this
is
> an absolute bug, if you use the MEMO edit type in your map, this error
> *will* happen to you.  By getting the new version (I guess that would be
> 5.6.10 now or is it 11?) you can run the new "blobfix" program that comes
> with it, and shrink/fix your blob files on the order of 2Gb files become
3Mb
> and similar.  It simply makes the blobs infinitely more stable. There was
a
> time when the blobs I used as MEMO type were so unstable that I always
> passed and used some other text saving method. Now, I use the MEMO
> function
> everywhere and they are solid as anything else I could muster up.  It's
> actually nice to have the feature. Now all we need is a better printing
> function for them. A while back I posted a method for being able to TAB
into
> and out of MEMO fields on the screen.  I feel they need to act similar to
> the way other fields on the screen work... But that is just my hang-up.
> There are lots of great uses for the MEMO exactly as they are.  One last
> thing... I'm not sure if the PageUp and PageDwn while in a text (MEMO)
field
> has been fixed. In previous versions it didn't work, and I think that is a
> must fix to make the MEMO editor have the look and feel anyone would
expect.
> Ken told me one time that he thought it should work and was surprised to
> find out it didn't, so it may have been another bug fixed in the new
> version. I didn't put it in as a specific bug report, so maybe that's
still
> hanging out, don't know.
> 
> But if you're having problems with MEMO/BLOB's being unstable and WAY too
> big, you need to get the new version. I think anything to do with file
size,
> (like ddefine and other executables have the fix in them.
> 
> Now, birthday stuff. 51 to 61 was a horrendous decade for me... At 50 is
> when I lost my sight. It kind of ruined any of the good stuff that was
> happening else wise like grandkids, having enough money for things I
always
> wanted, making a nice house and home... Relaxing a little, etc.  You I
hope,
> should be doing all those things and really enjoying it. But, don't let
> those muscles go down. I remember when you could do *pull-ups* on my door
> frame... Hanging by your fingertips!!!  Go on an Outreach trip or
> something... Just don't fall into Mt. Saint hellen.  :-)
> 
> Funny, you're listing to blues lately... Remember when we loved the Rock
so
> much. And there were great bands to go hear like Happy The Man.  I, too,
am
> playing a lot of blues. (I still love Blue Grass, and am going to see
> Allisyn Krauss in May at Gettysburg...) but Saturday night I'll be playing
> Rock Me Babe, and A Man In Love (a Clapton tune on "Money And Cigarettes")
> also, two of my own bluesy things... Oh, yeah, also Cripple Creek (The
> Band... Old standby's like that just never die.  "She told me just to come
> on by if there was anything that she could do..." [and she could do a lot
of
> things! :-)]).
> 
> Am I getting punctuation crazy in my old age?  Truly, if it matters, over
60
> and I don't feel like it's old age... Not until I try and get up after
> sitting on the floor for a while... Or when my fingers cramp up after two
> songs... Or any number of other things... But inside... In my head, where
it
> counts... I'm about 25.  :-)
> 
> Take care,
> 
> John
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ken white [mailto:kenwhite at verizon.net]
> > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 8:33 AM
> > To: john at valar.com
> > Subject: Re: Birthday coming soon
> >
> > 61 - woof,  that must mean I will be 51 soon.
> >
> > What are differences between 48 and 51    ?
> > Quantity of Hair and Hair color
> > Need glasses to read
> > Tinnitus
> > Injury's take longer to heal
> > Finding muscles not used in years to shovel snow
> > I listen to the blues more than rock and roll
> >
> > What do I have to look forward to over the next 10 years?
> >
> > On a side note:  How is the quality of the current release of
> > filepro?  DSI
> > has random blob/memo corruption problems on 5.6.06D4,
> > thinking of upgrading
> > them over the weekend with my fingers crossed.
> >
> > Happy Bday
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing list
> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list


_______________________________________________
Filepro-list mailing list
Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.celestial.com/pipermail/filepro-list/attachments/20100304/029ea7dc/attachment-0001.html 

From roberth at sim-soft.com  Thu Mar  4 19:00:11 2010
From: roberth at sim-soft.com (Bob Thomason)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 21:00:11 -0600
Subject: Birthday coming soon
References: <201003040341.o243fJ6E087374@admin114.securesites.net>
Message-ID: <001301cabc0f$f91a9280$7565a8c0@bobxp1>

I have High friends in small places lol.

Warmly,
Bob Thomason
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: John Esak 
  To: 'fplist' 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 9:40 PM
  Subject: Birthday coming soon


  >>>

    From: filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.com [mailto:filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.com] On Behalf Of Bob Thomason
    Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 10:29 PM
    To: fplist
    Subject: Birthday coming soon


    Did I just see where John Esak's got a birthday coming soon??  Happy pre-Birthday dude!!

    Warmly,
    Bob
  <<<<<


  Now how in the world would you know that?  I was just thinking that this year I would not get Bob Stockler's "Birthy Hapday" message which I had gotten about 25 years in a row.... thanks for knowing and at 60 I'm not sure thanking you for divulging it is good or bad.... Ah hell, it's good.. 61 years around the sun.... and I feel every ache and pain of it!  :-)

  John

  P.S. They've asked me to do a set at the club on Saturday night...  I think I'll work up Happy Birthday To Me... Happy Birthday To Me...  Happy Birthday Dear Guru.... :-)  :-)    Okay, okay, so I'm not a Guru... who will know?

  :-)




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Filepro-list mailing list
  Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
  http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.celestial.com/pipermail/filepro-list/attachments/20100304/c5583d2c/attachment.html 

From roberth at sim-soft.com  Thu Mar  4 19:05:35 2010
From: roberth at sim-soft.com (Bob Thomason)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 21:05:35 -0600
Subject: NEW BLOB FIX!!!!   RE: Birthday coming soon
References: <78156D18332F4747905790E0E32F2B7D@Dpc9150><201003041411.o24EBvdF089235@admin114.securesites.net><000001cabbe8$1a02fa50$4e08eef0$@net>
	<20100304230957.GA8369@jpradley.jpr.com>
Message-ID: <002e01cabc10$b9e0da60$7565a8c0@bobxp1>

JP,

I didn't have the little genie remind me of your birthday or I would have 
sent wishes to you as well.

Happy belated Birthday.........that is a term, right?


Warmly,
Bob Thomason
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jean-Pierre A. Radley" <appl at jpr.com>
To: "FilePro Mailing List" <filepro-list at lists.celestial.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 5:09 PM
Subject: Re: NEW BLOB FIX!!!! RE: Birthday coming soon


> Richard Kreiss propounded (on Thu, Mar 04, 2010 at 05:14:46PM -0500):
> | John,
> |
> | 60 is OK.  The problems start at 63.  That's when everything seems to
> | start failing.  I am 66, will be 67 in May and have too many parts
> | removed.  No doctor has offered to put anything in, just take it out.
> |
> | I am still doing things many younger men won't or can't do. you're
> | correct, age is a state of mind, think young, stay active and do the
> | things you want.  That's what make life fun.
>
> What's the big hullaballoo?  I saw no comparable commotion when I turned
> 78 two Saturdays ago.  But shucks, I recognize that compared to John
> Esak, I am just a shrinking violet.
>
> -- 
> JP
> _______________________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing list
> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list 


From john at valar.com  Thu Mar  4 22:18:12 2010
From: john at valar.com (John Esak)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 01:18:12 -0500
Subject: Birthday coming soon
In-Reply-To: <001001cabc04$37600090$a62001b0$@net>
Message-ID: <201003050618.o256IsVS041315@admin114.securesites.net>

I'm up for any food anywhere in Philly... maybe we should organize it for a
warm April day...
 


  _____  

From: filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.com
[mailto:filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.com] On Behalf
Of Richard Kreiss
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 8:36 PM
To: 'Richard Hane'; filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
Subject: RE: Birthday coming soon



How about some New England Clam Chowder at the Cape Code room?

 

Richard

 

From: Richard Hane [mailto:yoresoft at sbcglobal.net] 
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 5:23 PM
To: filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
Cc: Richard Kreiss
Subject: RE: Birthday coming soon

 

Gawd isn't this a sad commetary of who uses filePro.  I think we are all
over 50, many of us (including Howie) are over 60.

 

I wonder how old Ken is?????????

 

When you guys get done with your steak sandwich, hop over to Chicago and
I'll take you out for a real pizza & beer.

 

Rick Hane


 

 


  _____  


From: Richard Kreiss <rkreiss at verizon.net>
To: john at valar.com; filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
Sent: Thu, March 4, 2010 4:14:46 PM
Subject: RE: NEW BLOB FIX!!!! RE: Birthday coming soon

John,

60 is OK.  The problems start at 63.  That's when everything seems to start
failing.  I am 66, will be 67 in May and have too many parts removed.  No
doctor has offered to put anything in, just take it out.

I am still doing things many younger men won't or can't do.  you're correct,
age is a state of mind, think young, stay active and do the things you want.
That's what make life fun.

Happy birthday.

Richard

PS: How about meeting in Philadelphia for a steak sandwich?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: filepro-list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com
[mailto:filepro-
> list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com] On Behalf Of John
Esak
> Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 9:11 AM
> To: filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> Subject: NEW BLOB FIX!!!! RE: Birthday coming soon
> 
>  Ken,
> 
> Hold on with the birthday stuff... This is important...
> 
> There is a MAJOR (and I mean MAJOR) blob fix in the latest filePro. I
> discovered the problem about 6 months ago when our blobs were just getting
> SO huge.  The fix brings blobs down to exactly the size they should be
> (which is actually quite small)... You can easily calculate how big your
> blobs should be with a simple multiplication in the exact same way you
> calculate key size. I'm talking about using blob fields as MEMO edit type
> here. The Blob file has space added to it in 8k chunks. So, as your text
> moves up past an 8k boundary, a new 8k chunk is attached to the file.  If
> your blobs are gigantic, hell if they are simply bigger than the amount of
> text you have per memo dividing exactly into the blob file size...
> Remembering that you might have just 1 extra 8k chunk for the first
> available free space... Then you NEED the latest version.  Actually, this
is
> an absolute bug, if you use the MEMO edit type in your map, this error
> *will* happen to you.  By getting the new version (I guess that would be
> 5.6.10 now or is it 11?) you can run the new "blobfix" program that comes
> with it, and shrink/fix your blob files on the order of 2Gb files become
3Mb
> and similar.  It simply makes the blobs infinitely more stable. There was
a
> time when the blobs I used as MEMO type were so unstable that I always
> passed and used some other text saving method. Now, I use the MEMO
> function
> everywhere and they are solid as anything else I could muster up.  It's
> actually nice to have the feature. Now all we need is a better printing
> function for them. A while back I posted a method for being able to TAB
into
> and out of MEMO fields on the screen.  I feel they need to act similar to
> the way other fields on the screen work... But that is just my hang-up.
> There are lots of great uses for the MEMO exactly as they are.  One last
> thing... I'm not sure if the PageUp and PageDwn while in a text (MEMO)
field
> has been fixed. In previous versions it didn't work, and I think that is a
> must fix to make the MEMO editor have the look and feel anyone would
expect.
> Ken told me one time that he thought it should work and was surprised to
> find out it didn't, so it may have been another bug fixed in the new
> version. I didn't put it in as a specific bug report, so maybe that's
still
> hanging out, don't know.
> 
> But if you're having problems with MEMO/BLOB's being unstable and WAY too
> big, you need to get the new version. I think anything to do with file
size,
> (like ddefine and other executables have the fix in them.
> 
> Now, birthday stuff. 51 to 61 was a horrendous decade for me... At 50 is
> when I lost my sight. It kind of ruined any of the good stuff that was
> happening else wise like grandkids, having enough money for things I
always
> wanted, making a nice house and home... Relaxing a little, etc.  You I
hope,
> should be doing all those things and really enjoying it. But, don't let
> those muscles go down. I remember when you could do *pull-ups* on my door
> frame... Hanging by your fingertips!!!  Go on an Outreach trip or
> something... Just don't fall into Mt. Saint hellen.  :-)
> 
> Funny, you're listing to blues lately... Remember when we loved the Rock
so
> much. And there were great bands to go hear like Happy The Man.  I, too,
am
> playing a lot of blues. (I still love Blue Grass, and am going to see
> Allisyn Krauss in May at Gettysburg...) but Saturday night I'll be playing
> Rock Me Babe, and A Man In Love (a Clapton tune on "Money And Cigarettes")
> also, two of my own bluesy things... Oh, yeah, also Cripple Creek (The
> Band... Old standby's like that just never die.  "She told me just to come
> on by if there was anything that she could do..." [and she could do a lot
of
> things! :-)]).
> 
> Am I getting punctuation crazy in my old age?  Truly, if it matters, over
60
> and I don't feel like it's old age... Not until I try and get up after
> sitting on the floor for a while... Or when my fingers cramp up after two
> songs... Or any number of other things... But inside... In my head, where
it
> counts... I'm about 25.  :-)
> 
> Take care,
> 
> John
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ken white [mailto:kenwhite at verizon.net]
> > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 8:33 AM
> > To: john at valar.com
> > Subject: Re: Birthday coming soon
> >
> > 61 - woof,  that must mean I will be 51 soon.
> >
> > What are differences between 48 and 51    ?
> > Quantity of Hair and Hair color
> > Need glasses to read
> > Tinnitus
> > Injury's take longer to heal
> > Finding muscles not used in years to shovel snow
> > I listen to the blues more than rock and roll
> >
> > What do I have to look forward to over the next 10 years?
> >
> > On a side note:  How is the quality of the current release of
> > filepro?  DSI
> > has random blob/memo corruption problems on 5.6.06D4,
> > thinking of upgrading
> > them over the weekend with my fingers crossed.
> >
> > Happy Bday
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing list
> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list


_______________________________________________
Filepro-list mailing list
Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.celestial.com/pipermail/filepro-list/attachments/20100305/41d404b4/attachment-0001.html 

From john at valar.com  Thu Mar  4 22:19:39 2010
From: john at valar.com (John Esak)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 01:19:39 -0500
Subject: NEW BLOB FIX!!!!   RE: Birthday coming soon
In-Reply-To: <000701cabbf3$4f65d040$ee3170c0$@net>
Message-ID: <201003050620.o256KKOX041668@admin114.securesites.net>

I thought you learned that place wasn't there anymore... Did they move?

I rmember you saying one time how much you liked that place.


John
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.com 
> [mailto:filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.co
m] On Behalf Of Richard Kreiss
> Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 6:35 PM
> To: 'Kenneth Brody'
> Cc: filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> Subject: RE: NEW BLOB FIX!!!! RE: Birthday coming soon
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Kenneth Brody [mailto:kenbrody at spamcop.net]
> > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 6:26 PM
> > To: Richard Kreiss
> > Cc: filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> > Subject: Re: NEW BLOB FIX!!!! RE: Birthday coming soon
> > 
> > On 3/4/2010 5:14 PM, Richard Kreiss wrote:
> > [...]
> > > PS: How about meeting in Philadelphia for a steak sandwich?
> > [...]
> > 
> > Pat's or Geno's?
> > 
> > --
> > Kenneth Brody
> 
> Neither,
> 
> Delessandro's Steaks 
> Neighborhood: Roxborough
> 600 Wendover Street
> Philadelphia, PA 19128
> (215) 482-5407
> www.Dalessandros.com
> 
> Wendover &Henry Ave.
> 
> Check reviews http://www.yelp.com/biz/dalessandros-steaks-philadelphia
> 
> They make a steak sandwich with sauce and onions that are the 
> best.  When I
> was in school and living a few blocks away, I would purchase 2 steak
> sandwiches.  I would eat one on the way home and then have 
> the other one
> when I got to the apartment.
> 
> Angie Harmon, how is from Philadelphia, agrees the 
> Delessandro's has the
> best steak sandwich.  She said so on Jay Leno's show.
> 
> Richard
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing list
> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
> 


From rkreiss at verizon.net  Fri Mar  5 07:13:02 2010
From: rkreiss at verizon.net (Richard Kreiss)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2010 10:13:02 -0500
Subject: NEW BLOB FIX!!!!   RE: Birthday coming soon
In-Reply-To: <201003050620.o256KKOX041668@admin114.securesites.net>
References: <000701cabbf3$4f65d040$ee3170c0$@net>
	<201003050620.o256KKOX041668@admin114.securesites.net>
Message-ID: <003301cabc76$5a774850$0f65d8f0$@net>

Didn't move.  Took Joe Chasen there when we had the conference in Philly.

Richard

PS: April sounds good but it will have to be towards the end of April.  My
wife is having surgery on her neck on the 22nd and will be laid up for a few
weeks after that.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Esak [mailto:john at valar.com]
> Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 1:20 AM
> To: 'Richard Kreiss'; 'Kenneth Brody'
> Cc: filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> Subject: RE: NEW BLOB FIX!!!! RE: Birthday coming soon
> 
> I thought you learned that place wasn't there anymore... Did they move?
> 
> I rmember you saying one time how much you liked that place.
> 
> 
> John
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.com
> > [mailto:filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.co
> m] On Behalf Of Richard Kreiss
> > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 6:35 PM
> > To: 'Kenneth Brody'
> > Cc: filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> > Subject: RE: NEW BLOB FIX!!!! RE: Birthday coming soon
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Kenneth Brody [mailto:kenbrody at spamcop.net]
> > > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 6:26 PM
> > > To: Richard Kreiss
> > > Cc: filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> > > Subject: Re: NEW BLOB FIX!!!! RE: Birthday coming soon
> > >
> > > On 3/4/2010 5:14 PM, Richard Kreiss wrote:
> > > [...]
> > > > PS: How about meeting in Philadelphia for a steak sandwich?
> > > [...]
> > >
> > > Pat's or Geno's?
> > >
> > > --
> > > Kenneth Brody
> >
> > Neither,
> >
> > Delessandro's Steaks
> > Neighborhood: Roxborough
> > 600 Wendover Street
> > Philadelphia, PA 19128
> > (215) 482-5407
> > www.Dalessandros.com
> >
> > Wendover &Henry Ave.
> >
> > Check reviews http://www.yelp.com/biz/dalessandros-steaks-philadelphia
> >
> > They make a steak sandwich with sauce and onions that are the
> > best.  When I
> > was in school and living a few blocks away, I would purchase 2 steak
> > sandwiches.  I would eat one on the way home and then have
> > the other one
> > when I got to the apartment.
> >
> > Angie Harmon, how is from Philadelphia, agrees the
> > Delessandro's has the
> > best steak sandwich.  She said so on Jay Leno's show.
> >
> > Richard
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Filepro-list mailing list
> > Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> > http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
> >




From mschw at athenet.net  Fri Mar  5 07:23:23 2010
From: mschw at athenet.net (Mike Schwartz)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 09:23:23 -0600
Subject: Birthday coming soon
In-Reply-To: <20100304195237.A13346@iglou.com>
References: <78156D18332F4747905790E0E32F2B7D@Dpc9150>	<201003041411.o24EBvdF089235@admin114.securesites.net>	<000001cabbe8$1a02fa50$4e08eef0$@net>	<462201.15612.qm@web81403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<4B904E5E.7070601@aljex.com>
	<20100304195237.A13346@iglou.com>
Message-ID: <012b01cabc77$cc438e70$64caab50$@net>

> The honorable and venerable Brian K. White spoke thus:
> > Richard Hane wrote:
> > > Gawd isn't this a sad commetary of who uses filePro.  I think we
> are all
> > > over 50, many of us (including Howie) are over 60.
> >
> > 40 last month.
> 
> 39 middle of this month.  Don't tell me I'm youngest here...
> 
> mark->
> --
> Audio panton, cogito singularis,

   Mark as the Last filePro programmer left alive?

   Now THERE's the scariest thought I've heard in years!  They should have
included THAT in the movie "2012". 

   I just hope I'm not the second to the last filePro programmer still
working; the one who has to turn over the reins of all the filePro apps in
the world to Mark.  Maybe I'll be on a lot of drugs during my last days and
won't care...  <grin> 

   (Email fades out with R.E.M. singing, "It's the end of the world as we
know it...") 

Mike Schwartz





From rkreiss at verizon.net  Fri Mar  5 09:31:15 2010
From: rkreiss at verizon.net (Richard Kreiss)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2010 12:31:15 -0500
Subject: Birthday coming soon
In-Reply-To: <012b01cabc77$cc438e70$64caab50$@net>
References: <78156D18332F4747905790E0E32F2B7D@Dpc9150>
	<201003041411.o24EBvdF089235@admin114.securesites.net>
	<000001cabbe8$1a02fa50$4e08eef0$@net>
	<462201.15612.qm@web81403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<4B904E5E.7070601@aljex.com>
	<20100304195237.A13346@iglou.com> <012b01cabc77$cc438e70$64caab50$@net>
Message-ID: <003b01cabc89$a92005b0$fb601110$@net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: filepro-list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com
[mailto:filepro-
> list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com] On Behalf Of Mike
> Schwartz
> Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 10:23 AM
> To: 'FilePro Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: Birthday coming soon
> 
> > The honorable and venerable Brian K. White spoke thus:
> > > Richard Hane wrote:
> > > > Gawd isn't this a sad commetary of who uses filePro.  I think we
> > are all
> > > > over 50, many of us (including Howie) are over 60.
> > >
> > > 40 last month.
> >
> > 39 middle of this month.  Don't tell me I'm youngest here...
> >
> > mark->
> > --
> > Audio panton, cogito singularis,
> 
>    Mark as the Last filePro programmer left alive?
> 
>    Now THERE's the scariest thought I've heard in years!  They should have
> included THAT in the movie "2012".
> 
>    I just hope I'm not the second to the last filePro programmer still
> working; the one who has to turn over the reins of all the filePro apps in
> the world to Mark.  Maybe I'll be on a lot of drugs during my last days
and
> won't care...  <grin>
> 
>    (Email fades out with R.E.M. singing, "It's the end of the world as we
> know it...")
> 
> Mike Schwartz

Mike,

All of my client's have advised me that I should have internet & phone
capability from my coffin.  It's bad enough that when I go on vacation they
want to be able to reach me.

The last thing I want is phone service on a plane.  At least there, I get a
respite from their calls and have a chance to relax.

As it is, I have a mobile card for my laptop which allow me to work almost
anyplace my phone works.

As it is, my wife "borrowed' a mobile card from her employer and worked for
3 hours from our car while we drove to Ft. Lee, NJ.

As it is, I expect to have to continue working until I am 100. :)


Richard Kreiss
GCC Consulting
rkreiss at gccconsulting.net
? 

 



From yoresoft at sbcglobal.net  Fri Mar  5 09:29:22 2010
From: yoresoft at sbcglobal.net (Richard Hane)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 09:29:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Birthday coming soon
In-Reply-To: <012b01cabc77$cc438e70$64caab50$@net>
References: <78156D18332F4747905790E0E32F2B7D@Dpc9150>
	<201003041411.o24EBvdF089235@admin114.securesites.net>
	<000001cabbe8$1a02fa50$4e08eef0$@net>
	<462201.15612.qm@web81403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4B904E5E.7070601@aljex.com> <20100304195237.A13346@iglou.com>
	<012b01cabc77$cc438e70$64caab50$@net>
Message-ID: <970581.55568.qm@web81404.mail.mud.yahoo.com>





________________________________

From: Mike Schwartz <mschw at athenet.net>
To: FilePro Mailing List <filepro-list at lists.celestial.com>
Sent: Fri, March 5, 2010 9:23:23 AM
Subject: RE: Birthday coming soon

New True Windows version of filePro fpWin (version 1.0) with built in remote web access.

Sorry couldn't resist. Yes I know I am bad and will go sit in the corner.

Rick Hane



_______________________________________________
Filepro-list mailing list
Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list

> The honorable and venerable Brian K. White spoke thus:
> > Richard Hane wrote:
> > > Gawd isn't this a sad commetary of who uses filePro.? I think we
> are all
> > > over 50, many of us (including Howie) are over 60.
> >
> > 40 last month.
> 
> 39 middle of this month.? Don't tell me I'm youngest here...
> 
> mark->
> --
> Audio panton, cogito singularis,

? Mark as the Last filePro programmer left alive?

? Now THERE's the scariest thought I've heard in years!? They should have
included THAT in the movie "2012". 

? I just hope I'm not the second to the last filePro programmer still
working; the one who has to turn over the reins of all the filePro apps in
the world to Mark.? Maybe I'll be on a lot of drugs during my last days and
won't care...? <grin> 

? (Email fades out with R.E.M. singing, "It's the end of the world as we
know it...") 

Mike Schwartz

*** Important Announcement ***
For release 12/22/2012
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.celestial.com/pipermail/filepro-list/attachments/20100305/ffa88e2f/attachment.html 

From kenbrody at spamcop.net  Fri Mar  5 10:11:11 2010
From: kenbrody at spamcop.net (Kenneth Brody)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2010 13:11:11 -0500
Subject: Birthday coming soon
In-Reply-To: <003b01cabc89$a92005b0$fb601110$@net>
References: <78156D18332F4747905790E0E32F2B7D@Dpc9150>
	<201003041411.o24EBvdF089235@admin114.securesites.net>
	<000001cabbe8$1a02fa50$4e08eef0$@net>
	<462201.15612.qm@web81403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<4B904E5E.7070601@aljex.com>
	<20100304195237.A13346@iglou.com> <012b01cabc77$cc438e70$64caab50$@net>
	<003b01cabc89$a92005b0$fb601110$@net>
Message-ID: <4B91493F.40706@spamcop.net>

On 3/5/2010 12:31 PM, Richard Kreiss wrote:
[...]
> As it is, I expect to have to continue working until I am 100. :)

Then maybe you should join the Facebook group "HOPING TO MAKE IT TO THE 
CENTURIAN CLUB AND THEN KEEP GOING"?

-- 
Kenneth Brody

From r.hemer at w-link.net  Sat Mar  6 14:33:03 2010
From: r.hemer at w-link.net (Rodgers Hemer)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 14:33:03 -0800
Subject: Upgrade Installation of 5.6.10
Message-ID: <17ED80DF-7C22-48FF-ADE3-5597A582DF98@w-link.net>

I have just done a nochange upgrade from 5.0.14 to 5.6.10 on a SCO 5.0.7 server.  Everything seems to have installed correctly except the license.  The nohup command does not complete and the nohup.out file in ~/fp has a length of "0".  When entering filePro, a screen pops up stating that I have 5 user license with a grace period of 7 days.  I purchased licenses for a total of 30 seats and I assume that the license file reflects that.  I changed the ownership of the nohup.out file to filepro but that did not seem to help.


Can anyone inform me as to what might be happening in this install.  I need to get the licenses in place by Monday morning.

Thanks in advance.

Rodgers Hemer
206.523.2329
r.hemer at w-link.net



From wrandall at fptech.com  Sat Mar  6 15:06:52 2010
From: wrandall at fptech.com (Bill Randall)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2010 18:06:52 -0500
Subject: Upgrade Installation of 5.6.10
In-Reply-To: <17ED80DF-7C22-48FF-ADE3-5597A582DF98@w-link.net>
References: <17ED80DF-7C22-48FF-ADE3-5597A582DF98@w-link.net>
Message-ID: <4B92E00C.4080508@fptech.com>

Rodgers,

Is there a reason you did not write to filePro support or sales?


On 3/6/2010 5:33 PM, Rodgers Hemer wrote:
> I have just done a nochange upgrade from 5.0.14 to 5.6.10 on a SCO 5.0.7 server.  Everything seems to have installed correctly except the license.  The nohup command does not complete and the nohup.out file in ~/fp has a length of "0".  When entering filePro, a screen pops up stating that I have 5 user license with a grace period of 7 days.  I purchased licenses for a total of 30 seats and I assume that the license file reflects that.  I changed the ownership of the nohup.out file to filepro but that did not seem to help.
>
>
> Can anyone inform me as to what might be happening in this install.  I need to get the licenses in place by Monday morning.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Rodgers Hemer
> 206.523.2329
> r.hemer at w-link.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing list
> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
>
>    

-- 

William Randall
wrandall at fptech.com


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.celestial.com/pipermail/filepro-list/attachments/20100306/10739a95/attachment.html 

From appl at jpr.com  Sat Mar  6 17:01:37 2010
From: appl at jpr.com (Jean-Pierre A. Radley)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 20:01:37 -0500
Subject: Upgrade Installation of 5.6.10
In-Reply-To: <4B92E00C.4080508@fptech.com>
References: <17ED80DF-7C22-48FF-ADE3-5597A582DF98@w-link.net>
	<4B92E00C.4080508@fptech.com>
Message-ID: <20100307010137.GA29270@jpradley.jpr.com>

Bill Randall propounded (on Sat, Mar 06, 2010 at 06:06:52PM -0500):

| On 3/6/2010 5:33 PM, Rodgers Hemer wrote:
| >I have just done a nochange upgrade from 5.0.14 to 5.6.10 on a SCO
| >5.0.7 server.  Everything seems to have installed correctly except
| >the license.  The nohup command does not complete and the nohup.out
| >file in ~/fp has a length of "0".  When entering filePro, a screen
| >pops up stating that I have 5 user license with a grace period of
| >7 days.  I purchased licenses for a total of 30 seats and I assume
| >that the license file reflects that.  I changed the ownership of the
| >nohup.out file to filepro but that did not seem to help.
| >
| >Can anyone inform me as to what might be happening in this install.
| >I need to get the licenses in place by Monday morning.
| >
| >Thanks in advance.
| >
| >Rodgers Hemer 206.523.2329 r.hemer at w-link.net

| Rodgers,
| 
| Is there a reason you did not write to filePro support or sales?


Bill, I'll venture a guess: it's Saturday, and Rodgers assumed (despite
all well-meaning warnings to "never assume") that "filePro support or
sales" would not be listening or providing a solution "to get the
licenses in place by Monday morning".

:-)

-- 
JP

From fairlite at fairlite.com  Sat Mar  6 17:17:33 2010
From: fairlite at fairlite.com (Fairlight)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 20:17:33 -0500
Subject: Support/Sales Responsiveness (was: Re: Upgrade Installation of 5.6.10)
In-Reply-To: <4B92E00C.4080508@fptech.com>;
	from wrandall@fptech.com on Sat, Mar 06, 2010 at 06:06:52PM -0500
References: <17ED80DF-7C22-48FF-ADE3-5597A582DF98@w-link.net>
	<4B92E00C.4080508@fptech.com>
Message-ID: <20100306201733.A12233@iglou.com>

Four score and seven years--eh, screw that!
At about Sat, Mar 06, 2010 at 06:06:52PM -0500,
Bill Randall blabbed on about:
> Rodgers,
> 
> Is there a reason you did not write to filePro support or sales?

I can't speak for Rodgers, but my first thought upon reading your question
was, "There's support?!  There's barely sales!"

Reason being, recently (the last two years, and especially the last year),
many of my clients that try using support channels have had a horrible time
getting in touch with support, especially since the central office was
done away with.  

I personally could not contact sales for a consecutive three days sometime
last year while trying to get help with something--just kept getting
voicemail.  This is not a one-time occurrance.  Any time in the last
several years that I've needed to talk to someone at fP Tech for sales
-or- support, it's taken multiple days to get hold of a live person on the
phone--and that's just to get initial contact.  Maybe your email support is
faster...or existent.

Amongst many of those I talk to (some of which would be accurately
described as fP loyalists), fP support responsiveness has become a
sad joke, and the butt of cynical comments in private.  Apparently
it's especially bad with support pertaining to fPcgi in terms of long
turnarounds even once there's contact.

I can -easily- see why someone would turn to this list first, with its
generally expedient turnround times, rather than try official
channels--especially on a weekend and if time was short.

mark->

From r.hemer at w-link.net  Sun Mar  7 14:44:10 2010
From: r.hemer at w-link.net (Rodgers Hemer)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 14:44:10 -0800
Subject: Support/Sales Responsiveness (was: Re: Upgrade Installation of
	5.6.10)
In-Reply-To: <20100306201733.A12233@iglou.com>
References: <17ED80DF-7C22-48FF-ADE3-5597A582DF98@w-link.net>
	<4B92E00C.4080508@fptech.com> <20100306201733.A12233@iglou.com>
Message-ID: <742BF782-F79F-4571-8B26-436BA31E4375@w-link.net>


On Mar 6, 2010, at 5:17 PM, Fairlight wrote:

> Four score and seven years--eh, screw that!
> At about Sat, Mar 06, 2010 at 06:06:52PM -0500,
> Bill Randall blabbed on about:
>> Rodgers,
>> 
>> Is there a reason you did not write to filePro support or sales?
> 
> I can't speak for Rodgers, but my first thought upon reading your question
> was, "There's support?!  There's barely sales!"
> 
> Reason being, recently (the last two years, and especially the last year),
> many of my clients that try using support channels have had a horrible time
> getting in touch with support, especially since the central office was
> done away with.  
> 
> I personally could not contact sales for a consecutive three days sometime
> last year while trying to get help with something--just kept getting
> voicemail.  This is not a one-time occurrance.  Any time in the last
> several years that I've needed to talk to someone at fP Tech for sales
> -or- support, it's taken multiple days to get hold of a live person on the
> phone--and that's just to get initial contact.  Maybe your email support is
> faster...or existent.
> 
> Amongst many of those I talk to (some of which would be accurately
> described as fP loyalists), fP support responsiveness has become a
> sad joke, and the butt of cynical comments in private.  Apparently
> it's especially bad with support pertaining to fPcgi in terms of long
> turnarounds even once there's contact.
> 
> I can -easily- see why someone would turn to this list first, with its
> generally expedient turnround times, rather than try official
> channels--especially on a weekend and if time was short.

Mark:

We all have our stories about lack of support that we thought we needed at various times.  However, Bill worked with me on Saturday and Sunday until the problem was resolved.  The site is now updated and ready for the customer to use on Monday morning.  That would not have been the case if he had not been monitoring the list over the weekend.  I certainly appreciated his assistance.

Rodgers Hemer

From john at chrismanncomputer.com  Tue Mar  9 08:41:22 2010
From: john at chrismanncomputer.com (John Sica)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 09:41:22 -0700
Subject: index header capture
Message-ID: <4B967A32.3020708@chrismanncomputer.com>

Doing backups over the internet has forced me to consider eliminating 
the indexes from the backup.
 
Some time ago, I was able to capture only the part of the index I needed 
to re-create the index.  I used a command similar to this.

dd if=index.A of=index.head bs=1 count=160

This command captures the first 160 bytes of the file (index) and 
outputs it to another file called index.head.

However, when this file (index.head) is renamed to index.A, it does not 
give me all the information I need to create the index.  Does anyone 
know the minimum number of bytes needed to create an index.

Thanks,

John



From kenbrody at spamcop.net  Tue Mar  9 08:44:03 2010
From: kenbrody at spamcop.net (Kenneth Brody)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 11:44:03 -0500
Subject: index header capture
In-Reply-To: <4B967A32.3020708@chrismanncomputer.com>
References: <4B967A32.3020708@chrismanncomputer.com>
Message-ID: <4B967AD3.9040105@spamcop.net>

On 3/9/2010 11:41 AM, John Sica wrote:
> Doing backups over the internet has forced me to consider eliminating
> the indexes from the backup.
>
> Some time ago, I was able to capture only the part of the index I needed
> to re-create the index.  I used a command similar to this.
>
> dd if=index.A of=index.head bs=1 count=160
>
> This command captures the first 160 bytes of the file (index) and
> outputs it to another file called index.head.
>
> However, when this file (index.head) is renamed to index.A, it does not
> give me all the information I need to create the index.  Does anyone
> know the minimum number of bytes needed to create an index.

Stick with 2K.  And use "bs=2k count=1" for efficiency.  (ie: do 1 read of 
2K rather than 2,048 reads of 1 byte each.)

-- 
Kenneth Brody

From rkreiss at verizon.net  Tue Mar  9 11:42:26 2010
From: rkreiss at verizon.net (Richard Kreiss)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 14:42:26 -0500
Subject: index header capture
In-Reply-To: <4B967A32.3020708@chrismanncomputer.com>
References: <4B967A32.3020708@chrismanncomputer.com>
Message-ID: <001b01cabfc0$a603e6a0$f20bb3e0$@net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: filepro-list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com
[mailto:filepro-
> list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com] On Behalf Of John
Sica
> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:41 AM
> To: filePro
> Subject: index header capture
> 
> Doing backups over the internet has forced me to consider eliminating
> the indexes from the backup.
> 
> Some time ago, I was able to capture only the part of the index I needed
> to re-create the index.  I used a command similar to this.
> 
> dd if=index.A of=index.head bs=1 count=160
> 
> This command captures the first 160 bytes of the file (index) and
> outputs it to another file called index.head.
> 
> However, when this file (index.head) is renamed to index.A, it does not
> give me all the information I need to create the index.  Does anyone
> know the minimum number of bytes needed to create an index.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John

John,

Not sure which version of fp you're running.  But most of the recent
versions came with 2 files for recording the index specifications for all of
the filepro files.  Once it had this data, it creates a script which would
rebuild all of the indexes.

Look for fpidx and fpidxdat 

This has the advantage of running the program once and having the index
parameters stored.  You would only need to rerun the program if you add new
indexes or change an index parameter.


Richard Kreiss
GCC Consulting
rkreiss at gccconsulting.net
? 





From rkreiss at gccconsulting.net  Tue Mar  9 11:36:46 2010
From: rkreiss at gccconsulting.net (Richard Kreiss)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 14:36:46 -0500
Subject: OT: German laptop- Wow!
Message-ID: <001601cabfbf$db1cffd0$9156ff70$@net>

 

 

From: Gary [mailto:glb214 at optonline.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 2:05 PM
To: Richard Kreiss
Subject: Fw: German laptop- Wow!

 

I know this has gone around before.  But if you haven't seen this you will
be impressed with the idea.

 

Who know, maybe this will come to market in a few years.  

 

Looks smaller and lighter than the current netbooks.

 

 

 

 

Richard Kreiss
GCC Consulting

rkreiss at gccconsulting.net
  

 







   You're going to want one of these~~~~!   



 



This is pretty cool, check it out.  German
<http://click.email.globalspec.com/?qs=1c9ac13617334998c630cc5cd3e9d8505053e
29ddf917652aa08e1d5af745ae811cecdb324840b17>  concept laptop  

 

 



 

 

 

  

 



 

 

  

 



 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.celestial.com/pipermail/filepro-list/attachments/20100309/011081eb/attachment-0001.html 

From fairlite at fairlite.com  Tue Mar  9 13:18:59 2010
From: fairlite at fairlite.com (Fairlight)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 16:18:59 -0500
Subject: OT: German laptop- Wow!
In-Reply-To: <001601cabfbf$db1cffd0$9156ff70$@net>;
	from rkreiss@gccconsulting.net on Tue, Mar 09, 2010 at 02:36:46PM
	-0500
References: <001601cabfbf$db1cffd0$9156ff70$@net>
Message-ID: <20100309161858.A6282@iglou.com>

You'll never BELIEVE what Richard Kreiss said here...:
> 
> I know this has gone around before.  But if you haven't seen this you will
> be impressed with the idea.
> 
> Who know, maybe this will come to market in a few years.  
> 
> Looks smaller and lighter than the current netbooks.
> <http://click.email.globalspec.com/?qs=1c9ac13617334998c630cc5cd3e9d8505053e
> 29ddf917652aa08e1d5af745ae811cecdb324840b17>  concept laptop  

The direct link is http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=7H0K1k54t6A

I hate it when peeople supply redirect links--there's no valid reason for
not supplying direct links, especially when you've visited the page
yourself.  Sorry, personal gripe.

On to the content:  No way in hell would I buy one unless the price point
was so low that...well let's just say the price point will never be low
enough to justify it.

Why wouldn't I buy into it?  Because with that kind of design and that many
moving parts, you're -begging- for repair after repair after repair,
because of problem after problem after problem.  It doesn't look near
durable enough to stand up to real-world wear and tear outside of a lab or
office.  

I certainly see the inset areas (the closer immediate backing to
what would be the flexible LCD display) that gets exposed between segments,
as being a huge vulnerability to the display's safety and integrity.
Wouldn't be hard to drop something with a corner onto it and squish the
liquid crystals.  Ever seen an LCD where traumatic pressure has been
applied to a point?  It's not pretty.  And the technology isn't
inexpensive.

They make it look like a -great- concept "on paper".  In fact, I was
drooling there for a minute.  But when you think about actually investing
in, using, and maintaining one?  Not so much.  The world outside the lab
isn't forgiving enough.

Now...if you went the -other- way around the design...  :)  Imagine:

* Mostly cylindrical tube, 17" long, figure 3" diametre, flat bottom on
  which to rest.  Hard plastic shell.  Airflow vents on sides with intake
  and exhaust fans, one on one side, one on the other.  HD, ports,
  wireless, all securely inside the cylinder.

* Securable plastic "flap" on the front bottom close to the flat edge on
  one side from which you could pull a membrane keyboard on a retracting
  mechanism (similar to a windowshade).  Said membrane being essentially 
  a keyboard designed with the same concepts as today's touchscreen
  technology.  Securely protected while retracted inside the main assembly.

* Top securable plastic "flap" which can be flipped open to reveal a very
  thin projector strip assembly.  I'm not aware of the exact technologies
  involved, but I suspect they'd be remarkably similar to what Duran Duran
  has used in stage shows, which was dubbed "Augmented Reality".  In
  effect, a holographic display.

* You could entirely skip the membrane keyboard and go full-out,
  potentially, combining the augmented reality display technology with the
  same technology that drives a D-Beam controller for synthesizers.  The
  D-Beam (which actually uses licensed technology from another company)
  uses infrared light to judge distance and motion within the light's zone.
  It's currently being used to control synthesizers in many ways, including
  percussion, modulation, etc.  Because of how it works and the fact that
  it -does- have the ability to judge distance, that tells me it should
  be able to judge how high up the "visual" keyboard you're interacting,
  and it definitely has x,y sensing ability.  If it doesn't inherently have
  a z-axis and it was really necessary, you could theoretically line up
  a couple of these babies and put them in layers to give you "sensitivity".

So effectively, imagine the kind of computing shown in films like "Minority
Effect" (most offhand example...it's all over movies the last decade) but
on a laptop scale.  If you have D-Beam z-axis or implement multilayer
sensitivity, no reason you shouldn't be able to just jam your finger
through two layers of D-Beam with a reasonable spread (figure one aligned
1/2cm in front of the augmented reality display, one 1/2cm behind the
display plane) to trigger "drag" functionality like you drag with a
mouse--penetrate one layer to "type" on a visual keyboard, penetrate both
layers to effectively click-n-drag.  In fact, depending on the ranges
involved, it might be possible to put a "keyboard" below a "display" and
have both touchscreen and keyboard all from the same sensors.

Very vew moving parts involved...mostly covers.  If you went for the D-beam
instead of touchscreen, even less maintenance risks.  Cut out HD's and use
high capacity flash drives instead, and about the only moving parts you'd
need would be the fans.

THAT would be robust.  And upon reflection, I'm surprised the people
doing the Rolltop went with something as primitive as they did.  It's
flash, but it's just not very practical, IMHO.

The unit I propose might be a touch expensive, but Roland has put D-Beam
into synths, and their synths are almost always under $3k total...and
the D-Beam controller is only a small fraction of the cost of the whole
unit.  Not sure about the costs of the augmented reality/holographc display
though.

Still...that's the way to go.  The less moving and/or vulnerable parts, the
better--ask any engineer.  The most you should have to do with my proposed
design would be dust the sensors/projectors under the one flap once in a
while. I think you could probably even inset them a bit from the edge of
the cylinder so that just thumping the hard protective flap wouldn't impact
the actual gear--so you'd literally have to put a huge dent into the full
cylinder to harm the optics.

My only concern would be battery life.

mark->
-- 
Audio panton, cogito singularis,

From toma at aldridgeinc.com  Tue Mar  9 13:53:16 2010
From: toma at aldridgeinc.com (Aldridge, Inc.)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 15:53:16 -0600
Subject: Array question
Message-ID: <4B96C34C.4050303@aldridgeinc.com>

So, I do this kind of thing rather often:

dim scremp(7)(26,uplow):ga
pshift:
::lookup scremps  k=ka   i=A -nx:
loop6:not scremps:return:
:scremps(1) ne 1:return:
:zz ge "5":return:
::scremp(zz)=number{"." <scremps(6) <scremps(5):
::zz=zz+"1"; number=number+"1"; getnext scremps; goto loop6:
::end:

But in the present case, I want to fill 24 dummy fields, say aa-ax with 
the contents of 24 sequential fields in a lookup file beginning with 
field 50 there.

In help, I see this:

"DIM array(n):lookup(m)

Example: DIM place(2):CLIENTS(3) 'A 2 field array
taken from a lookup named CLIENTS starting
at its field 3."

Is that a good way to accomplish this? If yes, but where in this example 
would I tell the local array to begin, i.e. aa?

I'm missing some level of understanding here and would appreciate some 
insights or suggestions. Thanks

Tom Aldridge

From fairlite at fairlite.com  Tue Mar  9 14:20:26 2010
From: fairlite at fairlite.com (Fairlight)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 17:20:26 -0500
Subject: Array question
In-Reply-To: <4B96C34C.4050303@aldridgeinc.com>;
	from toma@aldridgeinc.com on Tue, Mar 09, 2010 at 03:53:16PM -0600
References: <4B96C34C.4050303@aldridgeinc.com>
Message-ID: <20100309172026.A9478@iglou.com>

When asked his whereabouts on Tue, Mar 09, 2010 at 03:53:16PM -0600,
Aldridge, Inc. took the fifth, drank it, and then slurred:
> dim scremp(7)(26,uplow):ga
[snip]
> But in the present case, I want to fill 24 dummy fields, say aa-ax with 
> the contents of 24 sequential fields in a lookup file beginning with 
> field 50 there.
[snip]
> Is that a good way to accomplish this? If yes, but where in this example 
> would I tell the local array to begin, i.e. aa?
> 
> I'm missing some level of understanding here and would appreciate some 
> insights or suggestions. Thanks

I haven't tested, but I -highly- doubt that array overlay will work on
dummy fields.  To my knowledge, this is only meant to work on real, numeric
fields.

mark->
-- 
Audio panton, cogito singularis,

From bruce at stn.com  Tue Mar  9 14:38:44 2010
From: bruce at stn.com (Bruce Easton)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 17:38:44 -0500
Subject: Array question
In-Reply-To: <4B96C34C.4050303@aldridgeinc.com>
References: <4B96C34C.4050303@aldridgeinc.com>
Message-ID: <4B96CDF4.2040407@stn.com>

On 3/9/10 4:53 PM, Aldridge, Inc. wrote:
[..]
>  But in the present case, I want to fill 24 dummy fields, say aa-ax
>  with the contents of 24 sequential fields in a lookup file beginning
>  with field 50 there.
>
[..]
>
>  Tom Aldridge _______________________________________________
>  Filepro-list mailing list Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
>  http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
>
>
Sure, Tom - just use two arrays:

     Then: dim dummyarray(24):aa
     Then: lookup alias=myfile  k=(key)  i=A -nx
      Then: dim lookarray(24):alias(50)
      Then: declare idx(2,.0); idx="1"
idxloo  If: idx le "24"
      Then: dummyarray[idx]=lookarray[idx]; idx=idx+"1"; goto idxloo

Bruce

Bruce Easton
STN, Inc.




From dave at wisvis.com  Tue Mar  9 14:39:21 2010
From: dave at wisvis.com (David Snyder)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 16:39:21 -0600
Subject: Array question
In-Reply-To: <20100309172026.A9478@iglou.com>
References: <4B96C34C.4050303@aldridgeinc.com> <20100309172026.A9478@iglou.com>
Message-ID: <4B96CE19.9060004@wisvis.com>

On 3/9/2010 4:20 PM, Fairlight wrote:
> When asked his whereabouts on Tue, Mar 09, 2010 at 03:53:16PM -0600,
> Aldridge, Inc. took the fifth, drank it, and then slurred:
>> dim scremp(7)(26,uplow):ga
> [snip]
>> But in the present case, I want to fill 24 dummy fields, say aa-ax with
>> the contents of 24 sequential fields in a lookup file beginning with
>> field 50 there.
> [snip]
>> Is that a good way to accomplish this? If yes, but where in this example
>> would I tell the local array to begin, i.e. aa?
>>
>> I'm missing some level of understanding here and would appreciate some
>> insights or suggestions. Thanks
>
> I haven't tested, but I -highly- doubt that array overlay will work on
> dummy fields.  To my knowledge, this is only meant to work on real, numeric
> fields.
>
> mark->


Yes, it can be done.  But you need two arrays.

dim array1(24)(24,uplow):lookup(10)
dim array2(24)(24,uplow):aa

Then transfer from one array to the other in a loop.


Loop : ct="24" : end

:: ct=ct+"1" ; array2(2)=array1(ct) ; goto Loop


Dave

From bruce at stn.com  Tue Mar  9 15:06:41 2010
From: bruce at stn.com (Bruce Easton)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 18:06:41 -0500
Subject: Array question
In-Reply-To: <4B96CDF4.2040407@stn.com>
References: <4B96C34C.4050303@aldridgeinc.com> <4B96CDF4.2040407@stn.com>
Message-ID: <4B96D481.4060501@stn.com>

On 3/9/10 5:38 PM, Bruce Easton wrote:
>  On 3/9/10 4:53 PM, Aldridge, Inc. wrote: [..]
> > But in the present case, I want to fill 24 dummy fields, say aa-ax
> > with the contents of 24 sequential fields in a lookup file
> > beginning with field 50 there.
> >
>  [..]
> >
> > Tom Aldridge _______________________________________________
> > Filepro-list mailing list Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> > http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
> >
> >
>  Sure, Tom - just use two arrays:
>
>  Then: dim dummyarray(24):aa
 > Then: lookup alias=myfile  k=(key)  i=A -nx

If: not alias
Then: goto somewhr  'get-way-outta-here--can't-touch-this! (alias)

 > Then: dim lookarray(24):alias(50)
 > Then: declare idx(2,.0); idx="1" idxloo
 > If: idx le "24"
 > Then: dummyarray[idx]=lookarray[idx]; idx=idx+"1"; goto idxloo
>
>  Bruce
>

ugg--I should not have give lookup example using -nx without
testing for lookup failure.

Bruce


From john at valar.com  Tue Mar  9 15:15:55 2010
From: john at valar.com (John Esak)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 18:15:55 -0500
Subject: Array question
In-Reply-To: <4B96C34C.4050303@aldridgeinc.com>
Message-ID: <201003092316.o29NGYvh011923@admin114.securesites.net>

Hi Tom,
You are right on it... Just a little way to go...

First a quick comment on your looping code.  The END will never happen. You
can remove that. The loop ends if you don't find a record (EOF), or if the
lookup key doesn't match field 1, or if your loop boundary is reached.  One
of these 3 things will eventually end the loop. It will never get to that
END in any way.

Okay, I think you bought the CD's and there are a couple movies about this
exact scenario you want. Just put "array" in the search criteria and the
right movies will pop up and you can hit enter on the one you want. If the
wrong CD of the set is not in the drive it will prompt you to put it in and
then take you the movie.

So, if what I put next doesn't get your brain around it... Do that.  (Hell,
didn't you even *win* that copy of the Tutorial CD's... I remember you won
something! :-)  Maybe it's why you don't value it enough to go right to it
for an answer like this. :-)  Okay, commercial over... :-)



When you overlay an array on a lookup, you are setting the beginning field
with the m value. By the way, it can't be a variable it has to be a
"legitimate field number in the lookup file", so it must look something like
this:

  dim array[24]:lookup-alias(10)

That would start this 24 element array at field 10 on the lookup record.
You can put this this DIM anywhere ahead of the lookup or any use of the
fields in the array, such as array[x].  Also, don't bother to try and set
the lengths and edits of this array. It will simply be congruent with the
fields in the lookup file. Each field in the array takes on those
characteristics.

The moment you actually do the lookup and find a record, this array becomes
"filled".  Referencing any element in it is just like referencing the field
by using the lookup-alias and a field.  So

Array["1"] and lookup-alias(10)  are exactly the same value.

Now, just by DIMensioning this array and performing the lookup, you've
filled the array with the 24 values from the lookup file... Now you want to
get them into sequential variables in this file... Probably to display on a
screen or a report.  The simplest thing to do is DIM another array of 24
fields and overlay it on the starting variable.  You would do something like
this:

Dim scr_vars[24](len,edit):aa

If all the fields are the same size, it's easy to just specify the length
and edit one time. If not, you could do each one individually or just pick a
length you know will work for every one of the 24 elements.  Anyway, I
digress.  Now that you have this array in your table, you have to fill it
with the values from the overlaid on the lookup array.  You can most easily
do this with another quick loop.


Fillit   if:
       then: declare ptr(2,.0);  ptr="1"
Lp_fill  if: ptr gt "24"
       then: return
       then: scr_vars[ptr]=array[ptr];  ptr=ptr + "1";  goto lp_fill


After hitting this "fillit" subroutine you can use the variables aa-ax or
the scr_vars[m] values wherever you want... In the table, on the screen or a
report.  If I were you at the top of the prc table, as you hit each new
record, I would clear the scr_vars array. "clear scr_vars".  

DO NOT EVER CLEAR AN ARRAY OVERLAID ON A LOOKUP FILE!!!!

Why? Because, obviously, the fields on that record will be instantly
cleared.  Of course there could be a time when you *want* to do this... But
that's your call.  Be very careful and understand that the lookup fields and
the array are exactly the same.  What you do to one, reflects in the other.
They are simply different ways of pointing to that field. The exact same
WARNING applies if you overlay an array over the real fields in the file on
which you're standing.

DIM array[24]:15

Don't be clearing this array or doing anything to these array elements
unless you really want to alter the values in the fields of the current
record.

That's it very easy.

John

 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.com 
> [mailto:filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.co
m] On Behalf Of Aldridge, Inc.
> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 4:53 PM
> To: filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> Subject: Array question
> 
> So, I do this kind of thing rather often:
> 
> dim scremp(7)(26,uplow):ga
> pshift:
> ::lookup scremps  k=ka   i=A -nx:
> loop6:not scremps:return:
> :scremps(1) ne 1:return:
> :zz ge "5":return:
> ::scremp(zz)=number{"." <scremps(6) <scremps(5):
> ::zz=zz+"1"; number=number+"1"; getnext scremps; goto loop6:
> ::end:
> 
> But in the present case, I want to fill 24 dummy fields, say 
> aa-ax with 
> the contents of 24 sequential fields in a lookup file beginning with 
> field 50 there.
> 
> In help, I see this:
> 
> "DIM array(n):lookup(m)
> 
> Example: DIM place(2):CLIENTS(3) 'A 2 field array
> taken from a lookup named CLIENTS starting
> at its field 3."
> 
> Is that a good way to accomplish this? If yes, but where in 
> this example 
> would I tell the local array to begin, i.e. aa?
> 
> I'm missing some level of understanding here and would 
> appreciate some 
> insights or suggestions. Thanks
> 
> Tom Aldridge
> _______________________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing list
> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
> 


From toma at aldridgeinc.com  Tue Mar  9 15:23:40 2010
From: toma at aldridgeinc.com (Aldridge, Inc.)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 17:23:40 -0600
Subject: Array question
In-Reply-To: <mailman.133.1268176606.5468.filepro-list@lists.celestial.com>
References: <mailman.133.1268176606.5468.filepro-list@lists.celestial.com>
Message-ID: <4B96D87C.5090109@aldridgeinc.com>

Dave, Bruce, John:

Thank you all for your answers. I get it now!

Bruce, I could see that you were just throwing together the essential 
lines, which is all I needed. Thanks.

John, those movies as you call them are great! In fact, just the other 
day I looked up and viewed the import routine. Today though, I'm at the 
office and your great CD's are at home! Also, thanks for the great 
gotcha reminder about mistakenly clearing the lookup array. Ouch.

Thanks again.

Tom Aldridge

From toma at aldridgeinc.com  Tue Mar  9 15:31:13 2010
From: toma at aldridgeinc.com (Tom Aldridge)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 17:31:13 -0600
Subject: Array question
In-Reply-To: <mailman.133.1268176606.5468.filepro-list@lists.celestial.com>
References: <mailman.133.1268176606.5468.filepro-list@lists.celestial.com>
Message-ID: <4B96DA41.2060207@aldridgeinc.com>

One last thing to John.... about the "end". I know, I'm just so used to 
separating all the various blocks of code that way... makes me feel good. :)

Tom

From john at valar.com  Tue Mar  9 15:49:47 2010
From: john at valar.com (John Esak)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 18:49:47 -0500
Subject: Array question
In-Reply-To: <4B96DA41.2060207@aldridgeinc.com>
Message-ID: <201003092350.o29NoRuK022058@admin114.securesites.net>

I understand....

I do the same thing... But I just put a comment and maybe some description
like 'end of subroutine  ----

That way I don't see the END as something that might happen.  Also,
sometimes you want to find all the y in your table... And this isn't a real
END.

But I totally understand "Comfort Food" ... :-)

For me, it's pizza... I don't need it, but it makes me feel good. :-)

As everyone has said for 30 years... The thing about filePro is that each
person can get used to it in his own way and make it work for them.

John



> -----Original Message-----
> From: filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.com 
> [mailto:filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.co
m] On Behalf Of Tom Aldridge
> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 6:31 PM
> To: filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> Subject: Re: Array question
> 
> One last thing to John.... about the "end". I know, I'm just 
> so used to 
> separating all the various blocks of code that way... makes 
> me feel good. :)
> 
> Tom
> _______________________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing list
> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
> 


From boaz at mirrotek.com  Wed Mar 10 06:35:50 2010
From: boaz at mirrotek.com (Boaz Bezborodko)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 09:35:50 -0500
Subject: Filepro-list Digest, Vol 74, Issue 16
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1268211377.11906.filepro-list@lists.celestial.com>
References: <mailman.1.1268211377.11906.filepro-list@lists.celestial.com>
Message-ID: <4B97AE46.5040309@mirrotek.com>


> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 17:23:40 -0600
> From: "Aldridge, Inc." <toma at aldridgeinc.com>
> Subject: Re: Array question
> To: filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> Message-ID: <4B96D87C.5090109 at aldridgeinc.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Dave, Bruce, John:
>
> Thank you all for your answers. I get it now!
>
> Bruce, I could see that you were just throwing together the essential 
> lines, which is all I needed. Thanks.
>
> John, those movies as you call them are great! In fact, just the other 
> day I looked up and viewed the import routine. Today though, I'm at the 
> office and your great CD's are at home! Also, thanks for the great 
> gotcha reminder about mistakenly clearing the lookup array. Ouch.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> Tom Aldridge
>   
>

I copied all the movies onto the flash drive that I keep in my pocket.  
They're now available wherever I need them.

Boaz

From rkreiss at gccconsulting.net  Wed Mar 10 09:47:44 2010
From: rkreiss at gccconsulting.net (Richard Kreiss)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 12:47:44 -0500
Subject: syntax error message
Message-ID: <001301cac079$ca2ca620$5e85f260$@net>

For the following code where <L> is the last element of the array who to use when the listbox is displayed,

dim who(6) on line 10.

<L> can be from 3-6 in value

Who is filled based on a lookup and will contain an employee #s and names depending on the number of employees list on the looked up record.

Using the array allow me to display these names in a number of fields in the current file where this information may be used.

list_cm? If:
       Then: sl=listbox(who,"1",L)
306  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
       ? If:         @fd="3"
       Then:         3=mid(who[sl],"1","4");sa=mid(who[sl],"6","30");RETURN
307  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
       ? If:         @fd="4"
       Then:         4=mid(who[sl],"1","4");wb=mid(who[sl],"6","30")
308  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
end_csm? If:
       Then: RETURN

Following error message


*** A filePro Error Has Occurred ***

Line Number: 306

        3=mid(who[sl],"1","4");sa=mid(who[sl],"6","30");RETURN
                  ^
Process contains a syntax error at position indicated.

SL is cast in auto process as sl(1,.0)

Changed the braces to parentheses and still got the error.

Anyone see the error?



Richard Kreiss
GCC Consulting
rkreiss at gccconsulting.net
  


 


From laura at hvcomputer.com  Wed Mar 10 09:52:25 2010
From: laura at hvcomputer.com (Laura Brody)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 12:52:25 -0500
Subject: syntax error message
In-Reply-To: <001301cac079$ca2ca620$5e85f260$@net>
References: <001301cac079$ca2ca620$5e85f260$@net>
Message-ID: <20100310125225.nshmgw9msgcgcog0-ynhenoebql@webmail.spamcop.net>

Quoting Richard Kreiss <rkreiss at gccconsulting.net>:

> For the following code where <L> is the last element of the array   
> who to use when the listbox is displayed,
>
> dim who(6) on line 10.
>
> <L> can be from 3-6 in value
[...]
> Following error message
>
>
> *** A filePro Error Has Occurred ***
>
> Line Number: 306
>
>         3=mid(who[sl],"1","4");sa=mid(who[sl],"6","30");RETURN
>                   ^
> Process contains a syntax error at position indicated.
>
> SL is cast in auto process as sl(1,.0)
>
> Changed the braces to parentheses and still got the error.
>
> Anyone see the error?

Yes.

The problem is that MID() does not allow arrays. Assign
who[sl] to a dummy field and then use the dummy field in
the MID() statement.



--
Laura Brody
+------------- Hudson Valley Computer Associates, Inc ----------+
| PO Box 859; 120 Sixth Street   http://www.hvcomputer.com      |
| Verplanck, NY 10596-0859       Voice mail: (914) 739-5004     |
+------ PC repair locally, filePro programming globally --------+

From rkreiss at verizon.net  Wed Mar 10 09:58:33 2010
From: rkreiss at verizon.net (Richard Kreiss)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 12:58:33 -0500
Subject: syntax error message
In-Reply-To: <20100310125225.nshmgw9msgcgcog0-ynhenoebql@webmail.spamcop.net>
References: <001301cac079$ca2ca620$5e85f260$@net>
	<20100310125225.nshmgw9msgcgcog0-ynhenoebql@webmail.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <001401cac07b$4d55cee0$e8016ca0$@net>

Laura,

Thanks for the quick response.

Richard

> -----Original Message-----
> From: filepro-list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com
[mailto:filepro-
> list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com] On Behalf Of Laura
Brody
> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 12:52 PM
> To: filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> Subject: Re: syntax error message
> 
> Quoting Richard Kreiss <rkreiss at gccconsulting.net>:
> 
> > For the following code where <L> is the last element of the array
> > who to use when the listbox is displayed,
> >
> > dim who(6) on line 10.
> >
> > <L> can be from 3-6 in value
> [...]
> > Following error message
> >
> >
> > *** A filePro Error Has Occurred ***
> >
> > Line Number: 306
> >
> >         3=mid(who[sl],"1","4");sa=mid(who[sl],"6","30");RETURN
> >                   ^
> > Process contains a syntax error at position indicated.
> >
> > SL is cast in auto process as sl(1,.0)
> >
> > Changed the braces to parentheses and still got the error.
> >
> > Anyone see the error?
> 
> Yes.
> 
> The problem is that MID() does not allow arrays. Assign
> who[sl] to a dummy field and then use the dummy field in
> the MID() statement.
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Laura Brody
> +------------- Hudson Valley Computer Associates, Inc ----------+
> | PO Box 859; 120 Sixth Street   http://www.hvcomputer.com      |
> | Verplanck, NY 10596-0859       Voice mail: (914) 739-5004     |
> +------ PC repair locally, filePro programming globally --------+
> _______________________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing list
> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list



From kenbrody at spamcop.net  Wed Mar 10 10:08:19 2010
From: kenbrody at spamcop.net (Kenneth Brody)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 13:08:19 -0500
Subject: syntax error message
In-Reply-To: <001301cac079$ca2ca620$5e85f260$@net>
References: <001301cac079$ca2ca620$5e85f260$@net>
Message-ID: <4B97E013.3070804@spamcop.net>

On 3/10/2010 12:47 PM, Richard Kreiss wrote:
> For the following code where<L>  is the last element of the array who to use when the listbox is displayed,
>
> dim who(6) on line 10.
>
> <L>  can be from 3-6 in value
[...]
> 306  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
>         ? If:         @fd="3"
>         Then:         3=mid(who[sl],"1","4");sa=mid(who[sl],"6","30");RETURN
[...]
> *** A filePro Error Has Occurred ***
>
> Line Number: 306
>
>          3=mid(who[sl],"1","4");sa=mid(who[sl],"6","30");RETURN
>                    ^
> Process contains a syntax error at position indicated.
[...]

What version of filePro are you running?  Older versions wouldn't allow 
array or lookup references as the first parameter to MID().

-- 
Kenneth Brody

From rkreiss at verizon.net  Wed Mar 10 10:28:46 2010
From: rkreiss at verizon.net (Richard Kreiss)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 13:28:46 -0500
Subject: syntax error message
In-Reply-To: <4B97E013.3070804@spamcop.net>
References: <001301cac079$ca2ca620$5e85f260$@net>
	<4B97E013.3070804@spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <001801cac07f$85e9c4b0$91bd4e10$@net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: filepro-list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com [mailto:filepro-
> list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth
> Brody
> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 1:08 PM
> To: rkreiss at gccconsulting.net
> Cc: 'filePro'; 'filePro Alpha Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: syntax error message
> 
> On 3/10/2010 12:47 PM, Richard Kreiss wrote:
> > For the following code where<L>  is the last element of the array who to use
> when the listbox is displayed,
> >
> > dim who(6) on line 10.
> >
> > <L>  can be from 3-6 in value
> [...]
> > 306  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
> >         ? If:         @fd="3"
> >         Then:         3=mid(who[sl],"1","4");sa=mid(who[sl],"6","30");RETURN
> [...]
> > *** A filePro Error Has Occurred ***
> >
> > Line Number: 306
> >
> >          3=mid(who[sl],"1","4");sa=mid(who[sl],"6","30");RETURN
> >                    ^
> > Process contains a syntax error at position indicated.
> [...]
> 
> What version of filePro are you running?  Older versions wouldn't allow
> array or lookup references as the first parameter to MID().
> 
> --
> Kenneth Brody

Ken

Windows 5.6.10





From kenbrody at spamcop.net  Wed Mar 10 11:01:02 2010
From: kenbrody at spamcop.net (Kenneth Brody)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:01:02 -0500
Subject: syntax error message
In-Reply-To: <001801cac07f$85e9c4b0$91bd4e10$@net>
References: <001301cac079$ca2ca620$5e85f260$@net>
	<4B97E013.3070804@spamcop.net> <001801cac07f$85e9c4b0$91bd4e10$@net>
Message-ID: <4B97EC6E.9010706@spamcop.net>

On 3/10/2010 1:28 PM, Richard Kreiss wrote:
[...]
>>> dim who(6) on line 10.
>>>
>>> <L>   can be from 3-6 in value
>> [...]
>>> 306  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
>>>          ? If:         @fd="3"
>>>          Then:         3=mid(who[sl],"1","4");sa=mid(who[sl],"6","30");RETURN
>> [...]
>>> *** A filePro Error Has Occurred ***
>>>
>>> Line Number: 306
>>>
>>>           3=mid(who[sl],"1","4");sa=mid(who[sl],"6","30");RETURN
>>>                     ^
>>> Process contains a syntax error at position indicated.
>> [...]
>>
>> What version of filePro are you running?  Older versions wouldn't allow
>> array or lookup references as the first parameter to MID().
>
> Windows 5.6.10

Works fine here.  This gives no syntax error:

   1  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
        ? If:
        Then: end
   2  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
        ? If:
        Then: dim who(6)
   3  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
        ? If:
        Then: sl = "1"
   4  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
        ? If:
        Then: xx = mid(who[sl],"1","4"); zz=mid(who[sl],"6","30")

Does this snippet work on your system?

-- 
Kenneth Brody

From rkreiss at gccconsulting.net  Wed Mar 10 11:12:54 2010
From: rkreiss at gccconsulting.net (Richard Kreiss)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:12:54 -0500
Subject: syntax error message
In-Reply-To: <4B97EC6E.9010706@spamcop.net>
References: <001301cac079$ca2ca620$5e85f260$@net>	<4B97E013.3070804@spamcop.net>
	<001801cac07f$85e9c4b0$91bd4e10$@net>
	<4B97EC6E.9010706@spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <002c01cac085$afeb57a0$0fc206e0$@net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kenneth Brody [mailto:kenbrody at spamcop.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 2:01 PM
> To: Richard Kreiss
> Cc: rkreiss at gccconsulting.net; 'filePro'
> Subject: Re: syntax error message
> 
> On 3/10/2010 1:28 PM, Richard Kreiss wrote:
> [...]
> >>> dim who(6) on line 10.
> >>>
> >>> <L>   can be from 3-6 in value
> >> [...]
> >>> 306  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
> >>>          ? If:         @fd="3"
> >>>          Then:         3=mid(who[sl],"1","4");sa=mid(who[sl],"6","30");RETURN
> >> [...]
> >>> *** A filePro Error Has Occurred ***
> >>>
> >>> Line Number: 306
> >>>
> >>>           3=mid(who[sl],"1","4");sa=mid(who[sl],"6","30");RETURN
> >>>                     ^
> >>> Process contains a syntax error at position indicated.
> >> [...]
> >>
> >> What version of filePro are you running?  Older versions wouldn't allow
> >> array or lookup references as the first parameter to MID().
> >
> > Windows 5.6.10
> 
> Works fine here.  This gives no syntax error:
> 
>    1  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
>         ? If:
>         Then: end
>    2  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
>         ? If:
>         Then: dim who(6)
>    3  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
>         ? If:
>         Then: sl = "1"
>    4  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
>         ? If:
>         Then: xx = mid(who[sl],"1","4"); zz=mid(who[sl],"6","30")
> 
> Does this snippet work on your system?

Ken,

If I run this snippet in a test table, it works.

So I now need to figure out why I am getting this error in this table.

Richard


From rkreiss at gccconsulting.net  Wed Mar 10 11:36:36 2010
From: rkreiss at gccconsulting.net (Richard Kreiss)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:36:36 -0500
Subject: syntax error message
In-Reply-To: <4B97EC6E.9010706@spamcop.net>
References: <001301cac079$ca2ca620$5e85f260$@net>	<4B97E013.3070804@spamcop.net>
	<001801cac07f$85e9c4b0$91bd4e10$@net>
	<4B97EC6E.9010706@spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <002d01cac088$ff963600$fec2a200$@net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kenneth Brody [mailto:kenbrody at spamcop.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 2:01 PM
> To: Richard Kreiss
> Cc: rkreiss at gccconsulting.net; 'filePro'
> Subject: Re: syntax error message
> 
> On 3/10/2010 1:28 PM, Richard Kreiss wrote:
> [...]
> >>> dim who(6) on line 10.
> >>>
> >>> <L>   can be from 3-6 in value
> >> [...]
> >>> 306  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
> >>>          ? If:         @fd="3"
> >>>          Then:         3=mid(who[sl],"1","4");sa=mid(who[sl],"6","30");RETURN
> >> [...]
> >>> *** A filePro Error Has Occurred ***
> >>>
> >>> Line Number: 306
> >>>
> >>>           3=mid(who[sl],"1","4");sa=mid(who[sl],"6","30");RETURN
> >>>                     ^
> >>> Process contains a syntax error at position indicated.
> >> [...]
> >>
> >> What version of filePro are you running?  Older versions wouldn't allow
> >> array or lookup references as the first parameter to MID().
> >
> > Windows 5.6.10
> 
> Works fine here.  This gives no syntax error:
> 
>    1  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
>         ? If:
>         Then: end
>    2  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
>         ? If:
>         Then: dim who(6)
>    3  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
>         ? If:
>         Then: sl = "1"
>    4  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
>         ? If:
>         Then: xx = mid(who[sl],"1","4"); zz=mid(who[sl],"6","30")
> 
> Does this snippet work on your system?
> 
> --
> Kenneth Brody

Ken,

For some reason the program burps on mid(who,"1","4").  I tested using new array names and did not get the error.

I am going to modify the programming to use a different array name and see what happens.

Richard



From toma at aldridgeinc.com  Wed Mar 10 11:41:45 2010
From: toma at aldridgeinc.com (Tom Aldridge)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 13:41:45 -0600
Subject: Array question
In-Reply-To: <mailman.135.1268249808.5468.filepro-list@lists.celestial.com>
References: <mailman.135.1268249808.5468.filepro-list@lists.celestial.com>
Message-ID: <4B97F5F9.5020908@aldridgeinc.com>

From: Boaz Bezborodko<boaz at mirrotek.com>

> I copied all the movies onto the flash drive that I keep in my pocket.
> They're now available wherever I need them.
>
> Boaz

Boaz,

Excellent! One of the best ideas I've heard in a long time! Thanks.

Tom

From rkreiss at gccconsulting.net  Wed Mar 10 11:43:31 2010
From: rkreiss at gccconsulting.net (Richard Kreiss)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:43:31 -0500
Subject: syntax error message
In-Reply-To: <4B97EC6E.9010706@spamcop.net>
References: <001301cac079$ca2ca620$5e85f260$@net>	<4B97E013.3070804@spamcop.net>
	<001801cac07f$85e9c4b0$91bd4e10$@net>
	<4B97EC6E.9010706@spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <002e01cac089$f6c55320$e44ff960$@net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kenneth Brody [mailto:kenbrody at spamcop.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 2:01 PM
> To: Richard Kreiss
> Cc: rkreiss at gccconsulting.net; 'filePro'
> Subject: Re: syntax error message
> 
> On 3/10/2010 1:28 PM, Richard Kreiss wrote:
> [...]
> >>> dim who(6) on line 10.
> >>>
> >>> <L>   can be from 3-6 in value
> >> [...]
> >>> 306  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
> >>>          ? If:         @fd="3"
> >>>          Then:         3=mid(who[sl],"1","4");sa=mid(who[sl],"6","30");RETURN
> >> [...]
> >>> *** A filePro Error Has Occurred ***
> >>>
> >>> Line Number: 306
> >>>
> >>>           3=mid(who[sl],"1","4");sa=mid(who[sl],"6","30");RETURN
> >>>                     ^
> >>> Process contains a syntax error at position indicated.
> >> [...]
> >>
> >> What version of filePro are you running?  Older versions wouldn't allow
> >> array or lookup references as the first parameter to MID().
> >
> > Windows 5.6.10
> 
> Works fine here.  This gives no syntax error:
> 
>    1  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
>         ? If:
>         Then: end
>    2  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
>         ? If:
>         Then: dim who(6)
>    3  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
>         ? If:
>         Then: sl = "1"
>    4  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
>         ? If:
>         Then: xx = mid(who[sl],"1","4"); zz=mid(who[sl],"6","30")
> 
> Does this snippet work on your system?
> 
> --
> Kenneth Brody

Modified the program to use an array whose  dim whose(5)

Everything worked as it should.

I have no idea why the array who would fail in the processing table and not in my test  table.

I even tried testing the programming at the line just below the dim statement.  That didn't work.

Richard



From kenbrody at spamcop.net  Thu Mar 11 08:03:59 2010
From: kenbrody at spamcop.net (Kenneth Brody)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 11:03:59 -0500
Subject: OT: Laptop cases/backpacks for 18.4" laptop
Message-ID: <4B99146F.4070100@spamcop.net>

Does anyone on this list have experience getting a carrying case or backpack 
for an 18.4" laptop?  I can't seem to find anything larger than for a 17" 
laptop.

It's a Toshiba Satellite, P505 series.  According to Toshiba, the laptop is 
17.4"W x 11.6"D x 1.68"H.

     http://laptops.toshiba.com/laptops/satellite/P500

Also according to Toshiba, the Targus TXL617 backpack is for laptops "18.4 
inch and under":

 
http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/adet.to?poid=268655&tab=features&top=true

However, according to Amazon, the inside dimensions only accommodate a 17" 
laptop, up to 16.5" wide:

     http://www.amazon.com/Targus-TXL617-17-Notebook-Backpack/dp/B0001EMM10

(Which makes sense, given the terminal "17" in the model number.  I can't 
find a model ending in "18" or "19".)

Searches for "18 inch laptop case" come up with cases that are 18" in the 
exterior, but still too small inside.  :-(

Ideas, tips, pointers, etc. greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

-- 
Kenneth Brody

From ras at anzio.com  Thu Mar 11 08:10:57 2010
From: ras at anzio.com (Bob Rasmussen)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 08:10:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: OT: Laptop cases/backpacks for 18.4" laptop
In-Reply-To: <4B99146F.4070100@spamcop.net>
References: <4B99146F.4070100@spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64ras.1003110808310.28408@nimbus.anzio.com>

Movin on up...

Someplace you might not have looked is in a SonyStyle store in a mall near 
you (maybe, if there is a mall near you).

On Thu, 11 Mar 2010, Kenneth Brody wrote:

> Does anyone on this list have experience getting a carrying case or backpack 
> for an 18.4" laptop?  I can't seem to find anything larger than for a 17" 
> laptop.
> 
> It's a Toshiba Satellite, P505 series.  According to Toshiba, the laptop is 
> 17.4"W x 11.6"D x 1.68"H.
> 
>      http://laptops.toshiba.com/laptops/satellite/P500
> 
> Also according to Toshiba, the Targus TXL617 backpack is for laptops "18.4 
> inch and under":
> 
>  
> http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/adet.to?poid=268655&tab=features&top=true
> 
> However, according to Amazon, the inside dimensions only accommodate a 17" 
> laptop, up to 16.5" wide:
> 
>      http://www.amazon.com/Targus-TXL617-17-Notebook-Backpack/dp/B0001EMM10
> 
> (Which makes sense, given the terminal "17" in the model number.  I can't 
> find a model ending in "18" or "19".)
> 
> Searches for "18 inch laptop case" come up with cases that are 18" in the 
> exterior, but still too small inside.  :-(
> 
> Ideas, tips, pointers, etc. greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> -- 
> Kenneth Brody
> _______________________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing list
> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
> 
> 

Regards,
....Bob Rasmussen,   President,   Rasmussen Software, Inc.

personal e-mail: ras at anzio.com
 company e-mail: rsi at anzio.com
          voice: (US) 503-624-0360 (9:00-6:00 Pacific Time)
            fax: (US) 503-624-0760
            web: http://www.anzio.com
 street address: Rasmussen Software, Inc.
                 10240 SW Nimbus, Suite L9
                 Portland, OR  97223  USA

From john at valar.com  Thu Mar 11 08:19:49 2010
From: john at valar.com (John Esak)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 11:19:49 -0500
Subject: Laptop cases/backpacks for 18.4" laptop
In-Reply-To: <4B99146F.4070100@spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <201003111620.o2BGKUSW015122@admin114.securesites.net>


Hey Ken,
The case I've been using on my HP 17" is the filePro case that was given out
at an old filePro convention. It has filePro sewn into the front of it...the
computer swims in there easily by 1.2", so an 18.2" thing would fit.  It is
very cool because it has lots of pockets for different things and stuff.  I
would give you mine, but I don't like you enough.  

John

P.s. - Do I even *need* the :-). Have we gotten that stupid yet?

 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.com 
> [mailto:filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.co
m] On Behalf Of Kenneth Brody
> Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 11:04 AM
> To: 'FilePro Mailing List'
> Subject: OT: Laptop cases/backpacks for 18.4" laptop
> 
> Does anyone on this list have experience getting a carrying 
> case or backpack 
> for an 18.4" laptop?  I can't seem to find anything larger 
> than for a 17" 
> laptop.
> 
> It's a Toshiba Satellite, P505 series.  According to Toshiba, 
> the laptop is 
> 17.4"W x 11.6"D x 1.68"H.
> 
>      http://laptops.toshiba.com/laptops/satellite/P500
> 
> Also according to Toshiba, the Targus TXL617 backpack is for 
> laptops "18.4 
> inch and under":
> 
>  
> http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/adet.to?poid=268655&tab=fe
atures&top=true
> 
> However, according to Amazon, the inside dimensions only 
> accommodate a 17" 
> laptop, up to 16.5" wide:
> 
>      
> http://www.amazon.com/Targus-TXL617-17-Notebook-Backpack/dp/B0001EMM10
> 
> (Which makes sense, given the terminal "17" in the model 
> number.  I can't 
> find a model ending in "18" or "19".)
> 
> Searches for "18 inch laptop case" come up with cases that 
> are 18" in the 
> exterior, but still too small inside.  :-(
> 
> Ideas, tips, pointers, etc. greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> -- 
> Kenneth Brody
> _______________________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing list
> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
> 


From rkreiss at gccconsulting.net  Thu Mar 11 08:21:52 2010
From: rkreiss at gccconsulting.net (Richard Kreiss)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 11:21:52 -0500
Subject: Laptop cases/backpacks for 18.4" laptop
In-Reply-To: <4B99146F.4070100@spamcop.net>
References: <4B99146F.4070100@spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <008201cac136$f5da7550$e18f5ff0$@net>

Ken,

Check this out on Toshiba's web-site

http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/recacc.to?poid=467917&coid=-39428&selcmp
codpip=CPU-0278|OS-0109|MEM-0086|HDD-0061|HDD2-0014|GFX-0065|ODD-0012|COLOR-
0023|KEY-0008|COM2-0017|BAT-0007|DVICE-0003|APP-0025|WARR-0001&selxsloidpip=


Look for the carrying case for 18.4" screens. $69.00



Richard Kreiss
GCC Consulting
rkreiss at gccconsulting.net
? 







> -----Original Message-----
> From: filepro-list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com
[mailto:filepro-
> list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth
> Brody
> Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 11:04 AM
> To: 'FilePro Mailing List'
> Subject: OT: Laptop cases/backpacks for 18.4" laptop
> 
> Does anyone on this list have experience getting a carrying case or
backpack
> for an 18.4" laptop?  I can't seem to find anything larger than for a 17"
> laptop.
> 
> It's a Toshiba Satellite, P505 series.  According to Toshiba, the laptop
is
> 17.4"W x 11.6"D x 1.68"H.
> 
>      http://laptops.toshiba.com/laptops/satellite/P500
> 
> Also according to Toshiba, the Targus TXL617 backpack is for laptops "18.4
> inch and under":
> 
> 
>
http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/adet.to?poid=268655&tab=features&top=tru
> e
> 
> However, according to Amazon, the inside dimensions only accommodate a 17"
> laptop, up to 16.5" wide:
> 
>      http://www.amazon.com/Targus-TXL617-17-Notebook-
> Backpack/dp/B0001EMM10
> 
> (Which makes sense, given the terminal "17" in the model number.  I can't
> find a model ending in "18" or "19".)
> 
> Searches for "18 inch laptop case" come up with cases that are 18" in the
> exterior, but still too small inside.  :-(
> 
> Ideas, tips, pointers, etc. greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> --
> Kenneth Brody
> _______________________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing list
> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list


From nlp at vss3.com  Thu Mar 11 09:26:21 2010
From: nlp at vss3.com (Nancy Palmquist)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 12:26:21 -0500
Subject: Laptop cases/backpacks for 18.4" laptop
In-Reply-To: <201003111620.o2BGKUSW015122@admin114.securesites.net>
References: <201003111620.o2BGKUSW015122@admin114.securesites.net>
Message-ID: <4B9927BD.9020809@vss3.com>

Ken,

I use the SCO case I got a few back.  Unfortunately, it is not a back 
pack style, like you want.  Duct tape might help you adapt it.

;-)

Nancy

On 3/11/2010 11:19 AM, John Esak wrote:
> Hey Ken,
> The case I've been using on my HP 17" is the filePro case that was given out
> at an old filePro convention. It has filePro sewn into the front of it...the
> computer swims in there easily by 1.2", so an 18.2" thing would fit.  It is
> very cool because it has lots of pockets for different things and stuff.  I
> would give you mine, but I don't like you enough.
>
> John
>
> P.s. - Do I even *need* the :-). Have we gotten that stupid yet?
>
>
>
>    
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.com
>> [mailto:filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.co
>>      
> m] On Behalf Of Kenneth Brody
>    
>> Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 11:04 AM
>> To: 'FilePro Mailing List'
>> Subject: OT: Laptop cases/backpacks for 18.4" laptop
>>
>> Does anyone on this list have experience getting a carrying
>> case or backpack
>> for an 18.4" laptop?  I can't seem to find anything larger
>> than for a 17"
>> laptop.
>>
>> It's a Toshiba Satellite, P505 series.  According to Toshiba,
>> the laptop is
>> 17.4"W x 11.6"D x 1.68"H.
>>
>>       http://laptops.toshiba.com/laptops/satellite/P500
>>
>> Also according to Toshiba, the Targus TXL617 backpack is for
>> laptops "18.4
>> inch and under":
>>
>>
>> http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/adet.to?poid=268655&tab=fe
>>      
> atures&top=true
>    
>> However, according to Amazon, the inside dimensions only
>> accommodate a 17"
>> laptop, up to 16.5" wide:
>>
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/Targus-TXL617-17-Notebook-Backpack/dp/B0001EMM10
>>
>> (Which makes sense, given the terminal "17" in the model
>> number.  I can't
>> find a model ending in "18" or "19".)
>>
>> Searches for "18 inch laptop case" come up with cases that
>> are 18" in the
>> exterior, but still too small inside.  :-(
>>
>> Ideas, tips, pointers, etc. greatly appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> -- 
>> Kenneth Brody
>> _______________________________________________
>> Filepro-list mailing list
>> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
>> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
>>
>>      
> _______________________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing list
> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
>
>    

-- 
Nancy Palmquist         MOS&  filePro Training Available
Virtual Software Systems    Web Based Training and Consulting
PHONE: (412) 835-9417           Web site:  http://www.vss3.com


From john at valar.com  Thu Mar 11 10:18:40 2010
From: john at valar.com (John Esak)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 13:18:40 -0500
Subject: Laptop cases/backpacks for 18.4" laptop
In-Reply-To: <4B9927BD.9020809@vss3.com>
Message-ID: <201003111819.o2BIJJTU063353@admin114.securesites.net>

 
Ken,
You MUST have one of the filePro(tm) bags FP Tech gave away... Right. Trust
me it is so cool.  It has a handle... *and* a long shoulder strap. Do you
really need it to be knapsack style?  Maybe not.  It is a perfect large
laptop bag.

As for the knapsack idea, though.  I just bought a knapsack style gig bag
for my good guitar. Now it is really cool. First of all carrying the guitar
to the place I play is a pain in the bu... (arm, hand, shoulder)... I have a
heavy duty molded plastic case. I'm constantly switching arms for the 3/4 of
a mile I have to walk.  So this nurdy thing will let me have hands free...
Need one for the cane these days anyway.  Plus, it is really cool that on
the back of the guitar body part is *another* removable, little knapsack. I
put drumsticks and string ease and extra strings... In this guy. But since
it's detacbable and there are lots of little pockets in the main case, it's
perfect.  I'll only use that for my big statium gigs. :-)   So, I understand
the desire for a knapsack type bag.... But for a laptop maybe just the
shoulder strap would do it.  Seriously, try that fiePro(tm) bag.

John




> -----Original Message-----
> From: filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.com 
> [mailto:filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.co
m] On Behalf Of Nancy Palmquist
> Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 12:26 PM
> To: filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> Subject: Re: Laptop cases/backpacks for 18.4" laptop
> 
> Ken,
> 
> I use the SCO case I got a few back.  Unfortunately, it is not a back 
> pack style, like you want.  Duct tape might help you adapt it.
> 
> ;-)
> 
> Nancy
> 
> On 3/11/2010 11:19 AM, John Esak wrote:
> > Hey Ken,
> > The case I've been using on my HP 17" is the filePro case 
> that was given out
> > at an old filePro convention. It has filePro sewn into the 
> front of it...the
> > computer swims in there easily by 1.2", so an 18.2" thing 
> would fit.  It is
> > very cool because it has lots of pockets for different 
> things and stuff.  I
> > would give you mine, but I don't like you enough.
> >
> > John
> >
> > P.s. - Do I even *need* the :-). Have we gotten that stupid yet?
> >
> >
> >
> >    
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.com
> >> [mailto:filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.co
> >>      
> > m] On Behalf Of Kenneth Brody
> >    
> >> Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 11:04 AM
> >> To: 'FilePro Mailing List'
> >> Subject: OT: Laptop cases/backpacks for 18.4" laptop
> >>
> >> Does anyone on this list have experience getting a carrying
> >> case or backpack
> >> for an 18.4" laptop?  I can't seem to find anything larger
> >> than for a 17"
> >> laptop.
> >>
> >> It's a Toshiba Satellite, P505 series.  According to Toshiba,
> >> the laptop is
> >> 17.4"W x 11.6"D x 1.68"H.
> >>
> >>       http://laptops.toshiba.com/laptops/satellite/P500
> >>
> >> Also according to Toshiba, the Targus TXL617 backpack is for
> >> laptops "18.4
> >> inch and under":
> >>
> >>
> >> http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/adet.to?poid=268655&tab=fe
> >>      
> > atures&top=true
> >    
> >> However, according to Amazon, the inside dimensions only
> >> accommodate a 17"
> >> laptop, up to 16.5" wide:
> >>
> >>
> >> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Targus-TXL617-17-Notebook-Backpack/dp/B0001EMM10
> >>
> >> (Which makes sense, given the terminal "17" in the model
> >> number.  I can't
> >> find a model ending in "18" or "19".)
> >>
> >> Searches for "18 inch laptop case" come up with cases that
> >> are 18" in the
> >> exterior, but still too small inside.  :-(
> >>
> >> Ideas, tips, pointers, etc. greatly appreciated.
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >>
> >> -- 
> >> Kenneth Brody
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Filepro-list mailing list
> >> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> >> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
> >>
> >>      
> > _______________________________________________
> > Filepro-list mailing list
> > Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> > http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
> >
> >    
> 
> -- 
> Nancy Palmquist         MOS&  filePro Training Available
> Virtual Software Systems    Web Based Training and Consulting
> PHONE: (412) 835-9417           Web site:  http://www.vss3.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing list
> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
> 


From kenbrody at spamcop.net  Thu Mar 11 11:19:55 2010
From: kenbrody at spamcop.net (Kenneth Brody)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 14:19:55 -0500
Subject: Laptop cases/backpacks for 18.4" laptop
In-Reply-To: <008201cac136$f5da7550$e18f5ff0$@net>
References: <4B99146F.4070100@spamcop.net>
	<008201cac136$f5da7550$e18f5ff0$@net>
Message-ID: <4B99425B.20506@spamcop.net>

On 3/11/2010 11:21 AM, Richard Kreiss wrote:
> Ken,
>
> Check this out on Toshiba's web-site
>
> http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/recacc.to?poid=467917&coid=-39428&selcmpcodpip=CPU-0278|OS-0109|MEM-0086|HDD-0061|HDD2-0014|GFX-0065|ODD-0012|COLOR-0023|KEY-0008|COM2-0017|BAT-0007|DVICE-0003|APP-0025|WARR-0001&selxsloidpip=
>
>
> Look for the carrying case for 18.4" screens. $69.00
[...]

Well, the Targus case is the same one I posted in my message.  However, the 
CaseLogic one is big enough, supporting up to 17.8" wide laptops.

http://www.caselogic.com/18_laptop_case/product_detail/index.cfm?modelid=133254

-- 
Kenneth Brody

From kenbrody at spamcop.net  Thu Mar 11 11:33:00 2010
From: kenbrody at spamcop.net (Kenneth Brody)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 14:33:00 -0500
Subject: Laptop cases/backpacks for 18.4" laptop
In-Reply-To: <201003111819.o2BIJJTU063353@admin114.securesites.net>
References: <201003111819.o2BIJJTU063353@admin114.securesites.net>
Message-ID: <4B99456C.4070407@spamcop.net>

On 3/11/2010 1:18 PM, John Esak wrote:
>
> Ken,
> You MUST have one of the filePro(tm) bags FP Tech gave away... Right. Trust
> me it is so cool.  It has a handle... *and* a long shoulder strap. Do you
> really need it to be knapsack style?  Maybe not.  It is a perfect large
> laptop bag.

It doesn't need to be a backpack.  In fact, the ones I've used in the past 
(and my current one) are the other style.  Laura has used a backpack one for 
a few years, and my online search showed some nice (but too-small) backpacks.

I have the filePro case, but it doesn't look quite big enough.  It might fit 
with the sides bulged out a little, and nothing else in it.  (I'm on the 
laptop now, so I didn't actually try putting it in.)

In fact, it's no wider than the one I'm using now, except that the filePro 
case's sides look more flexible.  The one I'm currently using, however, has 
a lot more room for accessories.  (It's about 6 inches deep, with many 
pockets and compartments.)

> As for the knapsack idea, though.  I just bought a knapsack style gig bag
> for my good guitar. Now it is really cool. First of all carrying the guitar
> to the place I play is a pain in the bu... (arm, hand, shoulder)... I have a
> heavy duty molded plastic case. I'm constantly switching arms for the 3/4 of
> a mile I have to walk.  So this nurdy thing will let me have hands free...
> Need one for the cane these days anyway.  Plus, it is really cool that on
> the back of the guitar body part is *another* removable, little knapsack. I
> put drumsticks and string ease and extra strings... In this guy. But since
> it's detacbable and there are lots of little pockets in the main case, it's
> perfect.  I'll only use that for my big statium gigs. :-)   So, I understand
> the desire for a knapsack type bag.... But for a laptop maybe just the
> shoulder strap would do it.  Seriously, try that fiePro(tm) bag.
[...]

-- 
Kenneth Brody

From rkreiss at verizon.net  Fri Mar 12 09:39:50 2010
From: rkreiss at verizon.net (Richard Kreiss)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 12:39:50 -0500
Subject: declare global
Message-ID: <002801cac20b$0533cc70$0f9b6550$@net>

If I have 2 processing tables which will call the same processing table
which has declare extern, do I declare global in each of these primary
tables or just once?

i.e. primary input programs are input.prc and enter.prc 
called table is call_post_memos.prc


Richard Kreiss
GCC Consulting
rkreiss at gccconsulting.net
? 





From fairlite at fairlite.com  Fri Mar 12 10:29:40 2010
From: fairlite at fairlite.com (Fairlight)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 13:29:40 -0500
Subject: declare global
In-Reply-To: <002801cac20b$0533cc70$0f9b6550$@net>;
	from rkreiss@verizon.net on Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 12:39:50PM -0500
References: <002801cac20b$0533cc70$0f9b6550$@net>
Message-ID: <20100312132940.A16543@iglou.com>

On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 12:39:50PM -0500, Richard Kreiss may or may not have
proven themselves an utter git by pronouncing:
> If I have 2 processing tables which will call the same processing table
> which has declare extern, do I declare global in each of these primary
> tables or just once?

Do the two calling tables run concurrently (CALL) in the same report/clerk
instance?  If not, then declare global in both calling tables and extern in
the called table.

If the two calling tables -do- run concurrently via CALL in the same
report/clerk instance, I'd probably move the declaration to automatic and
declare all other instances as extern.

mark->
-- 
Audio panton, cogito singularis,

From kenbrody at spamcop.net  Fri Mar 12 11:30:07 2010
From: kenbrody at spamcop.net (Kenneth Brody)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 14:30:07 -0500
Subject: declare global
In-Reply-To: <002801cac20b$0533cc70$0f9b6550$@net>
References: <002801cac20b$0533cc70$0f9b6550$@net>
Message-ID: <4B9A963F.404@spamcop.net>

On 3/12/2010 12:39 PM, Richard Kreiss wrote:
> If I have 2 processing tables which will call the same processing table
> which has declare extern, do I declare global in each of these primary
> tables or just once?
>
> i.e. primary input programs are input.prc and enter.prc
> called table is call_post_memos.prc

If the variable isn't needed prior to the call, then DECLARE GLOBAL in the 
CALLed table, and DECLARE EXTERN in those tables that call it.

-- 
Kenneth Brody

From fairlite at fairlite.com  Fri Mar 12 11:36:55 2010
From: fairlite at fairlite.com (Fairlight)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 14:36:55 -0500
Subject: declare global
In-Reply-To: <4B9A963F.404@spamcop.net>;
	from kenbrody@spamcop.net on Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 02:30:07PM -0500
References: <002801cac20b$0533cc70$0f9b6550$@net> <4B9A963F.404@spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <20100312143655.A17140@iglou.com>

Four score and seven years--eh, screw that!
At about Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 02:30:07PM -0500,
Kenneth Brody blabbed on about:
> 
> If the variable isn't needed prior to the call, then DECLARE GLOBAL in the 
> CALLed table, and DECLARE EXTERN in those tables that call it.

And if it is needed prior?  :)

m->
-- 
Audio panton, cogito singularis,

From rkreiss at verizon.net  Fri Mar 12 11:40:06 2010
From: rkreiss at verizon.net (Richard Kreiss)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 14:40:06 -0500
Subject: declare global
In-Reply-To: <20100312132940.A16543@iglou.com>
References: <002801cac20b$0533cc70$0f9b6550$@net>
	<20100312132940.A16543@iglou.com>
Message-ID: <003501cac21b$d1e1c460$75a54d20$@net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: filepro-list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com
[mailto:filepro-
> list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com] On Behalf Of
Fairlight
> Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 1:30 PM
> To: 'FilePro Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: declare global
> 
> On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 12:39:50PM -0500, Richard Kreiss may or may not
have
> proven themselves an utter git by pronouncing:
> > If I have 2 processing tables which will call the same processing table
> > which has declare extern, do I declare global in each of these primary
> > tables or just once?
> 
> Do the two calling tables run concurrently (CALL) in the same report/clerk
> instance?  If not, then declare global in both calling tables and extern
in
> the called table.
> 
> If the two calling tables -do- run concurrently via CALL in the same
> report/clerk instance, I'd probably move the declaration to automatic and
> declare all other instances as extern.
> 
> mark->

Mark,

The 2 calling table do not run concurrently.  Each performs a similar but
separate operation.

Thanks for the reply.

Richard





From rkreiss at gccconsulting.net  Fri Mar 12 20:03:26 2010
From: rkreiss at gccconsulting.net (Richard Kreiss)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 23:03:26 -0500
Subject: memo NN show
Message-ID: <004301cac262$22709eb0$6751dc10$@net>

This may be a bug.

I have a routine which puts up a list box with options once a memo has been
added to a record

1- view memo
2- Edit memo
3-delete memo

When the view option is selected, the memo window appears.  However there is
bleed through of information in dummy fields behind the memo window.  This
does not happen if edit is selected.

Has anyone else seen this problem?


Richard Kreiss
GCC Consulting
rkreiss at gccconsulting.net
? 





From john at valar.com  Sat Mar 13 09:16:25 2010
From: john at valar.com (John Esak)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 12:16:25 -0500
Subject: memo NN show
In-Reply-To: <004301cac262$22709eb0$6751dc10$@net>
Message-ID: <201003131717.o2DHH4cC017848@admin114.securesites.net>

Don't think I've ever done that, but I can try it later today or tomorrow.
In between the time you save the memo and then view it, do you issue a
generic WRITE command?  There is (or used to be in 5.0.14 a bug that would
not show you what had just been stored in the memo.  A gneric WRITE fixed
that.  Myabe he squashed this bug in 5.6 at some version.  But maybe also,
not, and doing a WRITE either between the saving of the memo and the view of
it, or the delete of it, would also affect your situation.

Going away today so can't test until tomorrow.

Bye

John

> -----Original Message-----
> From: filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.com 
> [mailto:filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.co
m] On Behalf Of Richard Kreiss
> Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 11:03 PM
> To: fpsupport at fptech.com; 'FilePro Mailing List'; 'filePro 
> Alpha Mailing List'
> Subject: memo NN show
> 
> This may be a bug.
> 
> I have a routine which puts up a list box with options once a 
> memo has been
> added to a record
> 
> 1- view memo
> 2- Edit memo
> 3-delete memo
> 
> When the view option is selected, the memo window appears.  
> However there is
> bleed through of information in dummy fields behind the memo 
> window.  This
> does not happen if edit is selected.
> 
> Has anyone else seen this problem?
> 
> 
> Richard Kreiss
> GCC Consulting
> rkreiss at gccconsulting.net
> ? 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing list
> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
> 


From nlp at vss3.com  Mon Mar 15 12:32:37 2010
From: nlp at vss3.com (Nancy Palmquist)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 15:32:37 -0400
Subject: memo NN show
In-Reply-To: <004301cac262$22709eb0$6751dc10$@net>
References: <004301cac262$22709eb0$6751dc10$@net>
Message-ID: <4B9E8B55.3060104@vss3.com>

Richard,

I seem to remember bugs like that with MEMO. Try displaying a blank 
filepro screen under the view for memo.  When they drop the view, 
display the real screen you want again.

Nancy

On 3/12/2010 11:03 PM, Richard Kreiss wrote:
> This may be a bug.
>
> I have a routine which puts up a list box with options once a memo has been
> added to a record
>
> 1- view memo
> 2- Edit memo
> 3-delete memo
>
> When the view option is selected, the memo window appears.  However there is
> bleed through of information in dummy fields behind the memo window.  This
> does not happen if edit is selected.
>
> Has anyone else seen this problem?
>
>
> Richard Kreiss
> GCC Consulting
> rkreiss at gccconsulting.net
>   
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing list
> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
>
>    

-- 
Nancy Palmquist         MOS&  filePro Training Available
Virtual Software Systems    Web Based Training and Consulting
PHONE: (412) 835-9417           Web site:  http://www.vss3.com


From rkreiss at verizon.net  Mon Mar 15 19:03:52 2010
From: rkreiss at verizon.net (Richard Kreiss)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 22:03:52 -0400
Subject: memo NN show
In-Reply-To: <4B9E8B55.3060104@vss3.com>
References: <004301cac262$22709eb0$6751dc10$@net> <4B9E8B55.3060104@vss3.com>
Message-ID: <000901cac4ac$ed818d70$c884a850$@net>

Thanks for the suggestion, will try it.

Richard

> -----Original Message-----
> From: filepro-list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com
[mailto:filepro-
> list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com] On Behalf Of Nancy
> Palmquist
> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 3:33 PM
> To: filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> Subject: Re: memo NN show
> 
> Richard,
> 
> I seem to remember bugs like that with MEMO. Try displaying a blank
> filepro screen under the view for memo.  When they drop the view,
> display the real screen you want again.
> 
> Nancy
> 
> On 3/12/2010 11:03 PM, Richard Kreiss wrote:
> > This may be a bug.
> >
> > I have a routine which puts up a list box with options once a memo has
been
> > added to a record
> >
> > 1- view memo
> > 2- Edit memo
> > 3-delete memo
> >
> > When the view option is selected, the memo window appears.  However
there
> is
> > bleed through of information in dummy fields behind the memo window.
This
> > does not happen if edit is selected.
> >
> > Has anyone else seen this problem?
> >
> >
> > Richard Kreiss
> > GCC Consulting
> > rkreiss at gccconsulting.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Filepro-list mailing list
> > Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> > http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
> >
> >
> 
> --
> Nancy Palmquist         MOS&  filePro Training Available
> Virtual Software Systems    Web Based Training and Consulting
> PHONE: (412) 835-9417           Web site:  http://www.vss3.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing list
> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list



From john at valar.com  Mon Mar 15 22:20:48 2010
From: john at valar.com (John Esak)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 01:20:48 -0400
Subject: memo NN show
In-Reply-To: <000901cac4ac$ed818d70$c884a850$@net>
Message-ID: <201003160521.o2G5LR2v002601@admin114.securesites.net>

Good idea Nancy, that certainly sounds like it will clear his problem. I
couldn't' duplicate it though.  I wonder if it has to do with fields that
are colored, and only happens on Windows?  Although I've seen bleed on *nix,
most of the causes seem to been fixed.  Once in a great while POPUPS would
exhibit a bleed depending on how much of the popup was filled by its fields
... Or the bottom/right most character not being a space.... It would bleed
from the last field marker to the bottom/right. For a time I just put a
period (.) as the bottom/right most character on the POPUP and this fiexed
things.  But like I say, somewhere in the 5.0 or maybe even the 5.6 versions
this became uneccessary.

Usually, bleed is not a problem with MEMO fields for me, because I try and
incorporate a bounded square area on each screen that might display a MEMO.
The square is the same size as the MEMO ECIT or MEMO VIEW so nothing seems
to change other than the text popping in on records that have a MEMO.  Of
course, this isn't always possible, and gives up its efficay to needed real
estate on the screen.

John

> -----Original Message-----
> From: filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.com 
> [mailto:filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.co
m] On Behalf Of Richard Kreiss
> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 10:04 PM
> To: 'Nancy Palmquist'; filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> Subject: RE: memo NN show
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion, will try it.
> 
> Richard
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: filepro-list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com
> [mailto:filepro-
> > list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com] On 
> Behalf Of Nancy
> > Palmquist
> > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 3:33 PM
> > To: filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> > Subject: Re: memo NN show
> > 
> > Richard,
> > 
> > I seem to remember bugs like that with MEMO. Try displaying a blank
> > filepro screen under the view for memo.  When they drop the view,
> > display the real screen you want again.
> > 
> > Nancy
> > 
> > On 3/12/2010 11:03 PM, Richard Kreiss wrote:
> > > This may be a bug.
> > >
> > > I have a routine which puts up a list box with options 
> once a memo has
> been
> > > added to a record
> > >
> > > 1- view memo
> > > 2- Edit memo
> > > 3-delete memo
> > >
> > > When the view option is selected, the memo window 
> appears.  However
> there
> > is
> > > bleed through of information in dummy fields behind the 
> memo window.
> This
> > > does not happen if edit is selected.
> > >
> > > Has anyone else seen this problem?
> > >
> > >
> > > Richard Kreiss
> > > GCC Consulting
> > > rkreiss at gccconsulting.net
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Filepro-list mailing list
> > > Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> > > http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
> > >
> > >
> > 
> > --
> > Nancy Palmquist         MOS&  filePro Training Available
> > Virtual Software Systems    Web Based Training and Consulting
> > PHONE: (412) 835-9417           Web site:  http://www.vss3.com
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Filepro-list mailing list
> > Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> > http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing list
> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
> 


From rkreiss at verizon.net  Tue Mar 16 06:13:19 2010
From: rkreiss at verizon.net (Richard Kreiss)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 09:13:19 -0400
Subject: memo NN show
In-Reply-To: <201003160521.o2G5LR2v002601@admin114.securesites.net>
References: <000901cac4ac$ed818d70$c884a850$@net>
	<201003160521.o2G5LR2v002601@admin114.securesites.net>
Message-ID: <001201cac50a$738dd420$5aa97c60$@net>

John,

In this case is only the meme nn show that is the problem.  Memo nn edit
works fine.  Not sure what the difference is between the 2  windows that pop
up.

I have to try this on some different machines to see if the problem may be
one to do with my monitor/video card combination or systemic on Windows
machines.

I just received my new Thinkpad running Windows 7 with the 15.4" rectangular
screen.  Got it with most of the needed "bells & whistles".  My older
Thinkpad is just over 6 years old and works fine.  The only problem is I ran
out of disk space - 30Gb drive.  As these are development machines I use
when traveling, I keep most of my client's systems loaded.  For programming
purposes, the older Thinkpad is more then adequate but my client's will soon
be migrating to Win7 and I need to be there also.

I'll let you know if the memo show has the same problem on these 2 machines.
Will test it on the older machine before migrating fp to the new one.

Richard



> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Esak [mailto:john at valar.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 1:21 AM
> To: 'Richard Kreiss'; 'Nancy Palmquist'; filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> Subject: RE: memo NN show
> 
> Good idea Nancy, that certainly sounds like it will clear his problem. I
> couldn't' duplicate it though.  I wonder if it has to do with fields that
> are colored, and only happens on Windows?  Although I've seen bleed on
*nix,
> most of the causes seem to been fixed.  Once in a great while POPUPS would
> exhibit a bleed depending on how much of the popup was filled by its
fields
> ... Or the bottom/right most character not being a space.... It would
bleed
> from the last field marker to the bottom/right. For a time I just put a
> period (.) as the bottom/right most character on the POPUP and this fiexed
> things.  But like I say, somewhere in the 5.0 or maybe even the 5.6
versions
> this became uneccessary.
> 
> Usually, bleed is not a problem with MEMO fields for me, because I try and
> incorporate a bounded square area on each screen that might display a
MEMO.
> The square is the same size as the MEMO ECIT or MEMO VIEW so nothing
> seems
> to change other than the text popping in on records that have a MEMO.  Of
> course, this isn't always possible, and gives up its efficay to needed
real
> estate on the screen.
> 
> John
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.com
> > [mailto:filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.co
> m] On Behalf Of Richard Kreiss
> > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 10:04 PM
> > To: 'Nancy Palmquist'; filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> > Subject: RE: memo NN show
> >
> > Thanks for the suggestion, will try it.
> >
> > Richard
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: filepro-list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com
> > [mailto:filepro-
> > > list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com] On
> > Behalf Of Nancy
> > > Palmquist
> > > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 3:33 PM
> > > To: filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> > > Subject: Re: memo NN show
> > >
> > > Richard,
> > >
> > > I seem to remember bugs like that with MEMO. Try displaying a blank
> > > filepro screen under the view for memo.  When they drop the view,
> > > display the real screen you want again.
> > >
> > > Nancy
> > >
> > > On 3/12/2010 11:03 PM, Richard Kreiss wrote:
> > > > This may be a bug.
> > > >
> > > > I have a routine which puts up a list box with options
> > once a memo has
> > been
> > > > added to a record
> > > >
> > > > 1- view memo
> > > > 2- Edit memo
> > > > 3-delete memo
> > > >
> > > > When the view option is selected, the memo window
> > appears.  However
> > there
> > > is
> > > > bleed through of information in dummy fields behind the
> > memo window.
> > This
> > > > does not happen if edit is selected.
> > > >
> > > > Has anyone else seen this problem?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Richard Kreiss
> > > > GCC Consulting
> > > > rkreiss at gccconsulting.net
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Filepro-list mailing list
> > > > Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> > > > http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Nancy Palmquist         MOS&  filePro Training Available
> > > Virtual Software Systems    Web Based Training and Consulting
> > > PHONE: (412) 835-9417           Web site:  http://www.vss3.com
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Filepro-list mailing list
> > > Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> > > http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Filepro-list mailing list
> > Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> > http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
> >




From rkreiss at verizon.net  Tue Mar 16 06:59:30 2010
From: rkreiss at verizon.net (Richard Kreiss)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 09:59:30 -0400
Subject: memo NN show
In-Reply-To: <001201cac50a$738dd420$5aa97c60$@net>
References: <000901cac4ac$ed818d70$c884a850$@net>
	<201003160521.o2G5LR2v002601@admin114.securesites.net>
	<001201cac50a$738dd420$5aa97c60$@net>
Message-ID: <001701cac510$e6cc55a0$b46500e0$@net>

I have been  testing this when connected through terminal server.

Just tested this on my system with a blank screen popped up behind the memo
nn show.  Same problem, the dummy fields behind bleed through both the popup
blank screen and the show window.

There is a bug in this function of the memo program.

The simplest way to avoid this is to just use the edit command - memo nn
edit readonly

This brings up the edit window (no bleed through) but the text can't be
edited.  Same as show except the cursor is in the upper left of the window.

I have a feeling this was added as a workaround for the memo nn show
problem.

Richard

> -----Original Message-----
> From: filepro-list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com
[mailto:filepro-
> list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com] On Behalf Of Richard
> Kreiss
> Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:13 AM
> To: john at valar.com; 'Nancy Palmquist'; filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> Subject: RE: memo NN show
> 
> John,
> 
> In this case is only the meme nn show that is the problem.  Memo nn edit
> works fine.  Not sure what the difference is between the 2  windows that
pop
> up.
> 
> I have to try this on some different machines to see if the problem may be
> one to do with my monitor/video card combination or systemic on Windows
> machines.
> 
> I just received my new Thinkpad running Windows 7 with the 15.4"
rectangular
> screen.  Got it with most of the needed "bells & whistles".  My older
> Thinkpad is just over 6 years old and works fine.  The only problem is I
ran
> out of disk space - 30Gb drive.  As these are development machines I use
> when traveling, I keep most of my client's systems loaded.  For
programming
> purposes, the older Thinkpad is more then adequate but my client's will
soon
> be migrating to Win7 and I need to be there also.
> 
> I'll let you know if the memo show has the same problem on these 2
machines.
> Will test it on the older machine before migrating fp to the new one.
> 
> Richard
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: John Esak [mailto:john at valar.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 1:21 AM
> > To: 'Richard Kreiss'; 'Nancy Palmquist';
filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> > Subject: RE: memo NN show
> >
> > Good idea Nancy, that certainly sounds like it will clear his problem. I
> > couldn't' duplicate it though.  I wonder if it has to do with fields
that
> > are colored, and only happens on Windows?  Although I've seen bleed on
> *nix,
> > most of the causes seem to been fixed.  Once in a great while POPUPS
would
> > exhibit a bleed depending on how much of the popup was filled by its
> fields
> > ... Or the bottom/right most character not being a space.... It would
> bleed
> > from the last field marker to the bottom/right. For a time I just put a
> > period (.) as the bottom/right most character on the POPUP and this
fiexed
> > things.  But like I say, somewhere in the 5.0 or maybe even the 5.6
> versions
> > this became uneccessary.
> >
> > Usually, bleed is not a problem with MEMO fields for me, because I try
and
> > incorporate a bounded square area on each screen that might display a
> MEMO.
> > The square is the same size as the MEMO ECIT or MEMO VIEW so nothing
> > seems
> > to change other than the text popping in on records that have a MEMO.
Of
> > course, this isn't always possible, and gives up its efficay to needed
> real
> > estate on the screen.
> >
> > John
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.com
> > > [mailto:filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.co
> > m] On Behalf Of Richard Kreiss
> > > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 10:04 PM
> > > To: 'Nancy Palmquist'; filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> > > Subject: RE: memo NN show
> > >
> > > Thanks for the suggestion, will try it.
> > >
> > > Richard
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: filepro-list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com
> > > [mailto:filepro-
> > > > list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com] On
> > > Behalf Of Nancy
> > > > Palmquist
> > > > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 3:33 PM
> > > > To: filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> > > > Subject: Re: memo NN show
> > > >
> > > > Richard,
> > > >
> > > > I seem to remember bugs like that with MEMO. Try displaying a blank
> > > > filepro screen under the view for memo.  When they drop the view,
> > > > display the real screen you want again.
> > > >
> > > > Nancy
> > > >
> > > > On 3/12/2010 11:03 PM, Richard Kreiss wrote:
> > > > > This may be a bug.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have a routine which puts up a list box with options
> > > once a memo has
> > > been
> > > > > added to a record
> > > > >
> > > > > 1- view memo
> > > > > 2- Edit memo
> > > > > 3-delete memo
> > > > >
> > > > > When the view option is selected, the memo window
> > > appears.  However
> > > there
> > > > is
> > > > > bleed through of information in dummy fields behind the
> > > memo window.
> > > This
> > > > > does not happen if edit is selected.
> > > > >
> > > > > Has anyone else seen this problem?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Richard Kreiss
> > > > > GCC Consulting
> > > > > rkreiss at gccconsulting.net
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Filepro-list mailing list
> > > > > Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> > > > > http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Nancy Palmquist         MOS&  filePro Training Available
> > > > Virtual Software Systems    Web Based Training and Consulting
> > > > PHONE: (412) 835-9417           Web site:  http://www.vss3.com
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Filepro-list mailing list
> > > > Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> > > > http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Filepro-list mailing list
> > > Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> > > http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
> > >
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing list
> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list



From kenb at fptech.com  Tue Mar 16 06:17:14 2010
From: kenb at fptech.com (Kenneth Brody)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 09:17:14 -0400
Subject: memo NN show
In-Reply-To: <004301cac262$22709eb0$6751dc10$@net>
References: <004301cac262$22709eb0$6751dc10$@net>
Message-ID: <4B9F84DA.5020607@fptech.com>

On 3/12/2010 11:03 PM, Richard Kreiss wrote:
> This may be a bug.
>
> I have a routine which puts up a list box with options once a memo has been
> added to a record
>
> 1- view memo
> 2- Edit memo
> 3-delete memo
>
> When the view option is selected, the memo window appears.  However there is
> bleed through of information in dummy fields behind the memo window.  This
> does not happen if edit is selected.
[...]

Have you modified the values of the fields that bleed through?  Try putting 
a DISPLAY before your MEMO command, to make sure the screen have been 
refreshed first.  Or, perchance, do you modify the fields "under" the popup 
after it is shown, but before it's taken down?

-- 
Kenneth Brody

From dmalen at malen.com  Tue Mar 16 11:06:00 2010
From: dmalen at malen.com (Dennis Malen)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 14:06:00 -0400
Subject: ot: seeking IT/programmer on Long Island, NY
Message-ID: <015b01cac533$5625eb10$0cb21309@dennisoffice>

We have a full time position open for an additional IT/programmer. We are 
located on Long Island, NY. Some filepro programming experience preferrable.

Dennis Malen
516.479.5912 


From nlp at vss3.com  Tue Mar 16 12:59:53 2010
From: nlp at vss3.com (Nancy Palmquist)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 15:59:53 -0400
Subject: memo NN show
In-Reply-To: <001701cac510$e6cc55a0$b46500e0$@net>
References: <000901cac4ac$ed818d70$c884a850$@net>
	<201003160521.o2G5LR2v002601@admin114.securesites.net>
	<001201cac50a$738dd420$5aa97c60$@net>
	<001701cac510$e6cc55a0$b46500e0$@net>
Message-ID: <4B9FE339.9020400@vss3.com>

Richard,

If you put a blank screen behind the Memo, how can any dummy fields be 
on the blank screen.  Are you just issuing a show() and putting data on 
the screen itself - not displaying as part of the screen?

Nancy

On 3/16/2010 9:59 AM, Richard Kreiss wrote:
> I have been  testing this when connected through terminal server.
>
> Just tested this on my system with a blank screen popped up behind the memo
> nn show.  Same problem, the dummy fields behind bleed through both the popup
> blank screen and the show window.
>
> There is a bug in this function of the memo program.
>
> The simplest way to avoid this is to just use the edit command - memo nn
> edit readonly
>
> This brings up the edit window (no bleed through) but the text can't be
> edited.  Same as show except the cursor is in the upper left of the window.
>
> I have a feeling this was added as a workaround for the memo nn show
> problem.
>
> Richard
>
>    
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: filepro-list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com
>>      
> [mailto:filepro-
>    
>> list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com] On Behalf Of Richard
>> Kreiss
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:13 AM
>> To: john at valar.com; 'Nancy Palmquist'; filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
>> Subject: RE: memo NN show
>>
>> John,
>>
>> In this case is only the meme nn show that is the problem.  Memo nn edit
>> works fine.  Not sure what the difference is between the 2  windows that
>>      
> pop
>    
>> up.
>>
>> I have to try this on some different machines to see if the problem may be
>> one to do with my monitor/video card combination or systemic on Windows
>> machines.
>>
>> I just received my new Thinkpad running Windows 7 with the 15.4"
>>      
> rectangular
>    
>> screen.  Got it with most of the needed "bells&  whistles".  My older
>> Thinkpad is just over 6 years old and works fine.  The only problem is I
>>      
> ran
>    
>> out of disk space - 30Gb drive.  As these are development machines I use
>> when traveling, I keep most of my client's systems loaded.  For
>>      
> programming
>    
>> purposes, the older Thinkpad is more then adequate but my client's will
>>      
> soon
>    
>> be migrating to Win7 and I need to be there also.
>>
>> I'll let you know if the memo show has the same problem on these 2
>>      
> machines.
>    
>> Will test it on the older machine before migrating fp to the new one.
>>
>> Richard
>>
>>
>>
>>      
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: John Esak [mailto:john at valar.com]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 1:21 AM
>>> To: 'Richard Kreiss'; 'Nancy Palmquist';
>>>        
> filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
>    
>>> Subject: RE: memo NN show
>>>
>>> Good idea Nancy, that certainly sounds like it will clear his problem. I
>>> couldn't' duplicate it though.  I wonder if it has to do with fields
>>>        
> that
>    
>>> are colored, and only happens on Windows?  Although I've seen bleed on
>>>        
>> *nix,
>>      
>>> most of the causes seem to been fixed.  Once in a great while POPUPS
>>>        
> would
>    
>>> exhibit a bleed depending on how much of the popup was filled by its
>>>        
>> fields
>>      
>>> ... Or the bottom/right most character not being a space.... It would
>>>        
>> bleed
>>      
>>> from the last field marker to the bottom/right. For a time I just put a
>>> period (.) as the bottom/right most character on the POPUP and this
>>>        
> fiexed
>    
>>> things.  But like I say, somewhere in the 5.0 or maybe even the 5.6
>>>        
>> versions
>>      
>>> this became uneccessary.
>>>
>>> Usually, bleed is not a problem with MEMO fields for me, because I try
>>>        
> and
>    
>>> incorporate a bounded square area on each screen that might display a
>>>        
>> MEMO.
>>      
>>> The square is the same size as the MEMO ECIT or MEMO VIEW so nothing
>>> seems
>>> to change other than the text popping in on records that have a MEMO.
>>>        
> Of
>    
>>> course, this isn't always possible, and gives up its efficay to needed
>>>        
>> real
>>      
>>> estate on the screen.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>        
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.com
>>>> [mailto:filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.co
>>>>          
>>> m] On Behalf Of Richard Kreiss
>>>        
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 10:04 PM
>>>> To: 'Nancy Palmquist'; filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
>>>> Subject: RE: memo NN show
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the suggestion, will try it.
>>>>
>>>> Richard
>>>>
>>>>          
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: filepro-list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com
>>>>>            
>>>> [mailto:filepro-
>>>>          
>>>>> list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com] On
>>>>>            
>>>> Behalf Of Nancy
>>>>          
>>>>> Palmquist
>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 3:33 PM
>>>>> To: filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: memo NN show
>>>>>
>>>>> Richard,
>>>>>
>>>>> I seem to remember bugs like that with MEMO. Try displaying a blank
>>>>> filepro screen under the view for memo.  When they drop the view,
>>>>> display the real screen you want again.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nancy
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/12/2010 11:03 PM, Richard Kreiss wrote:
>>>>>            
>>>>>> This may be a bug.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have a routine which puts up a list box with options
>>>>>>              
>>>> once a memo has
>>>> been
>>>>          
>>>>>> added to a record
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1- view memo
>>>>>> 2- Edit memo
>>>>>> 3-delete memo
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When the view option is selected, the memo window
>>>>>>              
>>>> appears.  However
>>>> there
>>>>          
>>>>> is
>>>>>            
>>>>>> bleed through of information in dummy fields behind the
>>>>>>              
>>>> memo window.
>>>> This
>>>>          
>>>>>> does not happen if edit is selected.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Has anyone else seen this problem?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Richard Kreiss
>>>>>> GCC Consulting
>>>>>> rkreiss at gccconsulting.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Filepro-list mailing list
>>>>>> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
>>>>>> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>              
>>>>> --
>>>>> Nancy Palmquist         MOS&   filePro Training Available
>>>>> Virtual Software Systems    Web Based Training and Consulting
>>>>> PHONE: (412) 835-9417           Web site:  http://www.vss3.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Filepro-list mailing list
>>>>> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
>>>>> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
>>>>>            
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Filepro-list mailing list
>>>> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
>>>> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
>>>>
>>>>          
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Filepro-list mailing list
>> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
>> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
>>      
>
>    

-- 
Nancy Palmquist         MOS&  filePro Training Available
Virtual Software Systems    Web Based Training and Consulting
PHONE: (412) 835-9417           Web site:  http://www.vss3.com


From kenbrody at spamcop.net  Tue Mar 16 13:36:01 2010
From: kenbrody at spamcop.net (Kenneth Brody)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:36:01 -0400
Subject: memo NN show
In-Reply-To: <4B9FE339.9020400@vss3.com>
References: <000901cac4ac$ed818d70$c884a850$@net>
	<201003160521.o2G5LR2v002601@admin114.securesites.net>
	<001201cac50a$738dd420$5aa97c60$@net>	<001701cac510$e6cc55a0$b46500e0$@net>
	<4B9FE339.9020400@vss3.com>
Message-ID: <4B9FEBB1.4000106@spamcop.net>

[Top-posting corrected.]

On 3/16/2010 3:59 PM, Nancy Palmquist wrote:
> On 3/16/2010 9:59 AM, Richard Kreiss wrote:
>> I have been  testing this when connected through terminal server.
>>
>> Just tested this on my system with a blank screen popped up behind the memo
>> nn show.  Same problem, the dummy fields behind bleed through both the popup
>> blank screen and the show window.
>
> If you put a blank screen behind the Memo, how can any dummy fields be
> on the blank screen.  Are you just issuing a show() and putting data on
> the screen itself - not displaying as part of the screen?

Re-read his post.  He says a he "popped up" the blank screen.  My guess is 
that he did a POPUP command, and the fields are bleeding through it for the 
same reason they bled through the memo.

[...]

-- 
Kenneth Brody

From rkreiss at gccconsulting.net  Tue Mar 16 18:18:01 2010
From: rkreiss at gccconsulting.net (Richard Kreiss)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 21:18:01 -0400
Subject: memo NN show
In-Reply-To: <4B9F84DA.5020607@fptech.com>
References: <004301cac262$22709eb0$6751dc10$@net> <4B9F84DA.5020607@fptech.com>
Message-ID: <000201cac56f$afeac1c0$0fc04540$@net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kenneth Brody [mailto:kenb at fptech.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:17 AM
> To: rkreiss at gccconsulting.net
> Cc: 'FilePro Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: memo NN show
> 
> On 3/12/2010 11:03 PM, Richard Kreiss wrote:
> > This may be a bug.
> >
> > I have a routine which puts up a list box with options once a memo has
been
> > added to a record
> >
> > 1- view memo
> > 2- Edit memo
> > 3-delete memo
> >
> > When the view option is selected, the memo window appears.  However
there
> is
> > bleed through of information in dummy fields behind the memo window.
This
> > does not happen if edit is selected.
> [...]
> 
> Have you modified the values of the fields that bleed through?
  NO
  Try putting> a DISPLAY before your MEMO command, to make sure the screen
have been
> refreshed first
Will try

.  Or, perchance, do you modify the fields "under" the popup
> after it is shown, but before it's taken down?

No, this is accessed from an @key command and then a list box to run the
option.

Richard


From rkreiss at verizon.net  Tue Mar 16 18:19:15 2010
From: rkreiss at verizon.net (Richard Kreiss)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 21:19:15 -0400
Subject: memo NN show
In-Reply-To: <4B9FE339.9020400@vss3.com>
References: <000901cac4ac$ed818d70$c884a850$@net>
	<201003160521.o2G5LR2v002601@admin114.securesites.net>
	<001201cac50a$738dd420$5aa97c60$@net>
	<001701cac510$e6cc55a0$b46500e0$@net> <4B9FE339.9020400@vss3.com>
Message-ID: <000301cac56f$dc73f8b0$955bea10$@net>

The blank screen area is larger then the memo window and the fields appear
to be bleeding through both.

Richard

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nancy Palmquist [mailto:nlp at vss3.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 4:00 PM
> To: Richard Kreiss
> Cc: john at valar.com; filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> Subject: Re: memo NN show
> 
> Richard,
> 
> If you put a blank screen behind the Memo, how can any dummy fields be
> on the blank screen.  Are you just issuing a show() and putting data on
> the screen itself - not displaying as part of the screen?
> 
> Nancy
> 
> On 3/16/2010 9:59 AM, Richard Kreiss wrote:
> > I have been  testing this when connected through terminal server.
> >
> > Just tested this on my system with a blank screen popped up behind the
> memo
> > nn show.  Same problem, the dummy fields behind bleed through both the
> popup
> > blank screen and the show window.
> >
> > There is a bug in this function of the memo program.
> >
> > The simplest way to avoid this is to just use the edit command - memo nn
> > edit readonly
> >
> > This brings up the edit window (no bleed through) but the text can't be
> > edited.  Same as show except the cursor is in the upper left of the
window.
> >
> > I have a feeling this was added as a workaround for the memo nn show
> > problem.
> >
> > Richard
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: filepro-list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com
> >>
> > [mailto:filepro-
> >
> >> list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com] On Behalf Of
Richard
> >> Kreiss
> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:13 AM
> >> To: john at valar.com; 'Nancy Palmquist'; filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> >> Subject: RE: memo NN show
> >>
> >> John,
> >>
> >> In this case is only the meme nn show that is the problem.  Memo nn
edit
> >> works fine.  Not sure what the difference is between the 2  windows
that
> >>
> > pop
> >
> >> up.
> >>
> >> I have to try this on some different machines to see if the problem may
be
> >> one to do with my monitor/video card combination or systemic on Windows
> >> machines.
> >>
> >> I just received my new Thinkpad running Windows 7 with the 15.4"
> >>
> > rectangular
> >
> >> screen.  Got it with most of the needed "bells&  whistles".  My older
> >> Thinkpad is just over 6 years old and works fine.  The only problem is
I
> >>
> > ran
> >
> >> out of disk space - 30Gb drive.  As these are development machines I
use
> >> when traveling, I keep most of my client's systems loaded.  For
> >>
> > programming
> >
> >> purposes, the older Thinkpad is more then adequate but my client's will
> >>
> > soon
> >
> >> be migrating to Win7 and I need to be there also.
> >>
> >> I'll let you know if the memo show has the same problem on these 2
> >>
> > machines.
> >
> >> Will test it on the older machine before migrating fp to the new one.
> >>
> >> Richard
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: John Esak [mailto:john at valar.com]
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 1:21 AM
> >>> To: 'Richard Kreiss'; 'Nancy Palmquist';
> >>>
> > filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> >
> >>> Subject: RE: memo NN show
> >>>
> >>> Good idea Nancy, that certainly sounds like it will clear his problem.
I
> >>> couldn't' duplicate it though.  I wonder if it has to do with fields
> >>>
> > that
> >
> >>> are colored, and only happens on Windows?  Although I've seen bleed on
> >>>
> >> *nix,
> >>
> >>> most of the causes seem to been fixed.  Once in a great while POPUPS
> >>>
> > would
> >
> >>> exhibit a bleed depending on how much of the popup was filled by its
> >>>
> >> fields
> >>
> >>> ... Or the bottom/right most character not being a space.... It would
> >>>
> >> bleed
> >>
> >>> from the last field marker to the bottom/right. For a time I just put
a
> >>> period (.) as the bottom/right most character on the POPUP and this
> >>>
> > fiexed
> >
> >>> things.  But like I say, somewhere in the 5.0 or maybe even the 5.6
> >>>
> >> versions
> >>
> >>> this became uneccessary.
> >>>
> >>> Usually, bleed is not a problem with MEMO fields for me, because I try
> >>>
> > and
> >
> >>> incorporate a bounded square area on each screen that might display a
> >>>
> >> MEMO.
> >>
> >>> The square is the same size as the MEMO ECIT or MEMO VIEW so nothing
> >>> seems
> >>> to change other than the text popping in on records that have a MEMO.
> >>>
> > Of
> >
> >>> course, this isn't always possible, and gives up its efficay to needed
> >>>
> >> real
> >>
> >>> estate on the screen.
> >>>
> >>> John
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.com
> >>>> [mailto:filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.co
> >>>>
> >>> m] On Behalf Of Richard Kreiss
> >>>
> >>>> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 10:04 PM
> >>>> To: 'Nancy Palmquist'; filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> >>>> Subject: RE: memo NN show
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks for the suggestion, will try it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Richard
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: filepro-list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com
> >>>>>
> >>>> [mailto:filepro-
> >>>>
> >>>>> list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com] On
> >>>>>
> >>>> Behalf Of Nancy
> >>>>
> >>>>> Palmquist
> >>>>> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 3:33 PM
> >>>>> To: filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> >>>>> Subject: Re: memo NN show
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Richard,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I seem to remember bugs like that with MEMO. Try displaying a blank
> >>>>> filepro screen under the view for memo.  When they drop the view,
> >>>>> display the real screen you want again.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Nancy
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 3/12/2010 11:03 PM, Richard Kreiss wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> This may be a bug.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I have a routine which puts up a list box with options
> >>>>>>
> >>>> once a memo has
> >>>> been
> >>>>
> >>>>>> added to a record
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 1- view memo
> >>>>>> 2- Edit memo
> >>>>>> 3-delete memo
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> When the view option is selected, the memo window
> >>>>>>
> >>>> appears.  However
> >>>> there
> >>>>
> >>>>> is
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> bleed through of information in dummy fields behind the
> >>>>>>
> >>>> memo window.
> >>>> This
> >>>>
> >>>>>> does not happen if edit is selected.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Has anyone else seen this problem?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Richard Kreiss
> >>>>>> GCC Consulting
> >>>>>> rkreiss at gccconsulting.net
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> Filepro-list mailing list
> >>>>>> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> >>>>>> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Nancy Palmquist         MOS&   filePro Training Available
> >>>>> Virtual Software Systems    Web Based Training and Consulting
> >>>>> PHONE: (412) 835-9417           Web site:  http://www.vss3.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Filepro-list mailing list
> >>>>> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> >>>>> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Filepro-list mailing list
> >>>> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> >>>> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Filepro-list mailing list
> >> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> >> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
> >>
> >
> >
> 
> --
> Nancy Palmquist         MOS&  filePro Training Available
> Virtual Software Systems    Web Based Training and Consulting
> PHONE: (412) 835-9417           Web site:  http://www.vss3.com




From rkreiss at verizon.net  Tue Mar 16 18:44:43 2010
From: rkreiss at verizon.net (Richard Kreiss)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 21:44:43 -0400
Subject: memo NN show
In-Reply-To: <4B9F84DA.5020607@fptech.com>
References: <004301cac262$22709eb0$6751dc10$@net> <4B9F84DA.5020607@fptech.com>
Message-ID: <000901cac573$6b685130$4238f390$@net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: filepro-list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com
[mailto:filepro-
> list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth
> Brody
> Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:17 AM
> To: rkreiss at gccconsulting.net
> Cc: 'FilePro Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: memo NN show
> 
> On 3/12/2010 11:03 PM, Richard Kreiss wrote:
> > This may be a bug.
> >
> > I have a routine which puts up a list box with options once a memo has
been
> > added to a record
> >
> > 1- view memo
> > 2- Edit memo
> > 3-delete memo
> >
> > When the view option is selected, the memo window appears.  However
there
> is
> > bleed through of information in dummy fields behind the memo window.
This
> > does not happen if edit is selected.
> [...]
> 
> Have you modified the values of the fields that bleed through?  Try
putting
> a DISPLAY before your MEMO command, to make sure the screen have been
> refreshed first.  Or, perchance, do you modify the fields "under" the
popup
> after it is shown, but before it's taken down?

Tried DISPLAY before putting up the memo.  That didn't work.

Ken Cole suggested I try this without the listbox.  Still the same problem.

If I don't drop the memo window before changing records, the window stays in
place between records and all dummy fields bleed through.  

More to the point, the memo NN show window appears to be behind the dummy
fields and not bleeding across.

Richard

  





From kenb at fptech.com  Tue Mar 16 20:12:04 2010
From: kenb at fptech.com (Kenneth Brody)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 23:12:04 -0400
Subject: memo NN show
In-Reply-To: <000901cac573$6b685130$4238f390$@net>
References: <004301cac262$22709eb0$6751dc10$@net> <4B9F84DA.5020607@fptech.com>
	<000901cac573$6b685130$4238f390$@net>
Message-ID: <4BA04884.4000107@fptech.com>

On 3/16/2010 9:44 PM, Richard Kreiss wrote:
[...]
>>> I have a routine which puts up a list box with options once a memo has
> been
>>> added to a record
>>>
>>> 1- view memo
>>> 2- Edit memo
>>> 3-delete memo
>>>
>>> When the view option is selected, the memo window appears.  However
> there is
>>> bleed through of information in dummy fields behind the memo window.
[...]
>> refreshed first.  Or, perchance, do you modify the fields "under" the
> popup after it is shown, but before it's taken down?
>
> Tried DISPLAY before putting up the memo.  That didn't work.
>
> Ken Cole suggested I try this without the listbox.  Still the same problem.
>
> If I don't drop the memo window before changing records, the window stays in
> place between records and all dummy fields bleed through.

"Changing records" == "modify the fields under the popup".

> More to the point, the memo NN show window appears to be behind the dummy
> fields and not bleeding across.

Perhaps you should post a minimal sample of actual code which demonstrates 
the bleed-through, along with a note as to where along the process the 
bleed-through occurs.

-- 
Kenneth Brody

From rkreiss at verizon.net  Wed Mar 17 11:30:03 2010
From: rkreiss at verizon.net (Richard Kreiss)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 14:30:03 -0400
Subject: FW: Code & screen shot -  HTML formatted email
Message-ID: <004b01cac5ff$dcdf8950$969e9bf0$@net>

 

Per Ken?s request.

 

1.     code

 

100  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

      ? If:

      Then: dim rosie(4)

101  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

      ? If: memo_1 = ""

      Then:         GOTO addmemo

102  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

      ? If:

      Then: rosie["1"]="View Memo";rosie["2"]="Edit Memo";rosie["3"]="Delete Memo?;rosie[?4?]=?Cancel?

103  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

    ? If:

      Then: 'rosie["1"]="Edit Memo";rosie["2"]="Delete Memo";rosie["3"]="Cancel?

104  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

      ? If:

      Then: sl=listbox(rosie)

105  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

      ? If:         sl = "4"

      Then:         END

106  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

       ? If:         sl  = "3"

       Then:         GOTO delmemo

107  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

       ? If:         sl = "2"

       Then:         GOTO ed_memo

108  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

       ? If: '       sl = "1"  ?this works

       Then: '       memo 27 edit ("5","15") readonly;END

109  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

       ? If:         sl = "1"  ?bleeds thru

       Then:         memo 27 show ("5","15");END

110  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

       ? If:

       Then: END

 

Screen shot:

 

Displayed memo:

 

 



 

Blue area of the screen consists of dummy fields which display memos stored in a file called  cs_memo which has 2 text fields.  The latest ?memo? will be displayed.

 

Note that memos in this case refer to data in cs_memo and note refers to filePro?s memo field.

 

It appears that just dummy fields are bleeding through.  

 

@keyC will clear the memo window.

 

Richard

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.celestial.com/pipermail/filepro-list/attachments/20100317/15eaa94c/attachment-0001.html 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: image/png
Size: 76466 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mailman.celestial.com/pipermail/filepro-list/attachments/20100317/15eaa94c/attachment-0001.png 

From kenbrody at spamcop.net  Thu Mar 18 09:16:47 2010
From: kenbrody at spamcop.net (Kenneth Brody)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 12:16:47 -0400
Subject: FW: Code & screen shot -  HTML formatted email
In-Reply-To: <004b01cac5ff$dcdf8950$969e9bf0$@net>
References: <004b01cac5ff$dcdf8950$969e9bf0$@net>
Message-ID: <4BA251EF.6080006@spamcop.net>

On 3/17/2010 2:30 PM, Richard Kreiss wrote:
>
> Per Ken?s request.
[...]

Here's what I said:

> Perhaps you should post a minimal sample of actual code which demonstrates
> the bleed-through, along with a note as to where along the process the
> bleed-through occurs.

Posting lines 100 through 110 without any other context, and not telling us 
when in the processing the bleed-through occurs doesn't really help.

-- 
Kenneth Brody

From rkreiss at verizon.net  Thu Mar 18 10:58:11 2010
From: rkreiss at verizon.net (Rkreiss@verizon.net])
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 13:58:11 -0400
Subject: FW: Code & screen shot -  HTML formatted email
Message-ID: <0KZH00JEYOKZPYA2@vms173019.mailsrvcs.net>

Ken,

I put in tbe code as this is an @key function which is the selected from a list box.

The problem, as illustrated, happens as soon as the command is executed.  

Some is different in how memo nn show window works and how the window displays using memo nn edit.

As i indicatedm only information in dummy fields bleed through.

Richard

-----Original Message-----
From: Kenneth Brody <kenbrody at spamcop.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:16 PM
To: Richard Kreiss <rkreiss at verizon.net>
Cc: 'FilePro Mailing List' <filepro-list at lists.celestial.com>
Subject: Re: FW: Code & screen shot -  HTML formatted email

On 3/17/2010 2:30 PM, Richard Kreiss wrote:
>
> Per Ken?s request.
[...]

Here's what I said:

> Perhaps you should post a minimal sample of actual code which demonstrates
> the bleed-through, along with a note as to where along the process the
> bleed-through occurs.

Posting lines 100 through 110 without any other context, and not telling us 
when in the processing the bleed-through occurs doesn't really help.

-- 
Kenneth Brody


From kenbrody at spamcop.net  Thu Mar 18 11:42:25 2010
From: kenbrody at spamcop.net (Kenneth Brody)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 14:42:25 -0400
Subject: FW: Code & screen shot -  HTML formatted email
In-Reply-To: <0KZH00JEYOKZPYA2@vms173019.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <0KZH00JEYOKZPYA2@vms173019.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <4BA27411.2060702@spamcop.net>

On 3/18/2010 1:58 PM, Rkreiss at verizon.net] wrote:
> Ken,
>
> I put in tbe code as this is an @key function which is the selected from a list box.
>
> The problem, as illustrated, happens as soon as the command is executed.

So, if you run the debugger, the bleed-through occurs immediately after 
executing the MEMO...SHOW statement?

> Some is different in how memo nn show window works and how the window displays using memo nn edit.
>
> As i indicatedm only information in dummy fields bleed through.
[...]

The problem is that you only show 11 lines of your processing table.  What's 
to say it's not something in one of the multitude of lines that you didn't 
show that are the problem?

Create a prc table consisting of just those 11 lines (with the addition of 
your @KEY label).  Then, run dclerk with that prc and no automatic 
processing (ie: running with only the 11 lines that you showed us), and see 
if the still fails.

If that doesn't fail, then the problem lies elsewhere.

-- 
Kenneth Brody

From bill at celestial.com  Thu Mar 18 21:36:55 2010
From: bill at celestial.com (Bill Campbell)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 21:36:55 -0700
Subject: Comments on FilePro installation and Linux xterm (mis)handling.
Message-ID: <20100319043655.GA21749@ayn.mi.celestial.com>

I have been preparing to help move several FilePro systems from
SCO OpenServer to Linux, so installed FP 5.6.0 on one of our
CentOS 5 machines here to get myself back up to speed on this
after several years of being away from direct FilePro usage.

I have to say that I am singularly unimpressed with the
installation procedure which seems hardly changed from the days
when John Esak was the Small Computer Company in D.C. over 20
years ago.  The terminal handling for the standard Linux xterm,
which used to work, doesn't display the borders properly, sending
incorrect codes to the screen, not what is in the pf/termcap.

Here are my first impressions during the install (first as it's
been long enough since I last did this that I had to figure it
out again when starting from a tarball).

There is no README or INSTALL file in the base directory with
instructions on how to install the software.  I had to poke
around in the top level directory to figure out what to do.

The name of the installation script, finish, is dumb.  This
should be install.sh or something obvious.  True enough the the
FilePro install has, to the best of my recollection, used this
same name forever, but at least have a README to say so.

The installation script appears to look for the less pager, but
should honor the PAGER environment variable instead of using
``pg'' or whatever.

The installation script ignores the user's PATH environment
variable, complaining the the specified location for the ``pf''
startup script isn't in the PATH although it definately is.

There should be some obvious way to specify the license file at
the time of the installation.

The installation and pf scripts should return the display to the
original settings, not leave it in black background with white
foreground.  I think this has been covered ad nauseum on this
list, and I would think by this time it should be fixed.

The TERMCAP handling is horrible with garbage line drawing
graphics.  This is fundamentally broken, sending ESC[46m, a bunch
of non-ascii character, then ESC[10m instead of the proper codes
for graphics, ESC[0mlqqqqqqqqq...qqkESC(B for the top border
(these taken from the output of the ``script'' command running
``pf'' and a python curses application with a similar border).  I
can't figure out where the ESC[46m comes from as it's not in
either the pf/termcap or /etc/termcap files.

I checked the runmenu program with ldd to be sure that the
problems are not related to shared library differences.

I am attaching a comparison of the pf/termcap, /etc/termcap, and
our local termcap file which we normally put in the TERMCAP
environment variable.  I have ignored the terminal initialization
string, ``is'' to keep the column width down, but they are the
same on pf/termcap and ours.  The left column is the termcap
code, the second the pf/termcap, the third is /etc/termcap from
the CentOS 5 system, and the fourth the one we have been using
for over a decade.

Finally, the FilePro program ignores the COLUMNS and LINES
environment variables so don't adjust the display size to resized
xterm windows.

In summary, there are several things that could/should be done to
the installation script to (a) make them easier to understand for
the average person, and (b) recognize user defined environment
variables, (particularly PAGER and PATH).  The termcap handling
appears to be getting its information for the line-drawing
characters someplace other than the termcap file.

The TERMCAP environment variable set in the pf startup script
should refer to the installer's prefered termcap, with perhaps a
second environment variable to point to the pf/termcap file.  Any
termcap customization should be done, not by editing the
/etc/termcap file, but in a separate file that won't be changed
by the vendor's update procedures with the TERMCAP environment
variable referring to the customized file.  FilePro used to do
this, first using /etc/termcap or the TERMCAP file, then adding
the definitions from the pf/termcap file (mostly HELP labels for
FilePro's special function keys).

I think a major reason for this two-step processing was the 1024
character limit on termcap entries.

Bill
-- 
INTERNET:   bill at celestial.com  Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC
URL: http://www.celestial.com/  PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way
Voice:          (206) 236-1676  Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820
Fax:            (206) 232-9186  Skype: jwccsllc (206) 855-5792

A perpetual and unlimited debt represents deficit spending as a social
principle. It means a progressive redistribution of wealth by will of
government until there is no more fat to divide; after that comes a level
rationing of the national income. It means in the end the cheapening
of money and then inflation, whereby the middle class is economically
murdered in its sleep. In the arsenal of revolution the perfect weapon
is inflation. -- Garet Garrett, The Revolution Was
-------------- next part --------------
term = xterm
CD pf/termcap   /tmp/centos    /csoft/etc/termcap Description
ae ^O           \E(B           ^O                 end alternate character set
al \E[L         \E[L           \E[L               add (insert) blank line
AL \E[%dL       \E[%dL         \E[%dL             Multiplan sent by ALTERNATE Key
am True         True           True               automatic margins
as ^N           \E(0           ^N                 start alternate character set
bc \E[1D        None           \E[1D              backspace if not ^H
bl None         ^G             None               bell
bs None         True           None               ^h does backspace
bt None         \E[Z           None               back tab
cd \E[J         \E[J           \E[J               clear to end of display
ce \E[K         \E[K           \E[K               clear to end of line
ch None         \E[%i%dG       None               like cm but horizontal motion only
cl \E[H\E[2J    \E[H\E[2J      \E[H\E[2J          clear screen
cm \E[%i%d;%dH  \E[%i%d;%dH    \E[%i%d;%dH        cursor motion
co 80           80             80                 number of columns in a line
cr None         ^M             None               carriage return
cs \E[%i%d;%dr  \E[%i%d;%dr    \E[%i%d;%dr        change scrolling region (vt100)
ct \E[3g        \E[3g          \E[3g              clear tabs
cv None         \E[%i%dd       None               like ch but vertical only
dc \E[P         \E[P           \E[P               delete character
dl \E[M         \E[M           \E[M               delete line
DL \E[%dM       \E[%dM         \E[%dM             Multiplan sent by DELETE key
do None         ^J             None               down one line
ec None         \E[%dX         None               erase character
ei None         \E[4l          None               end insert mode
EN None         None           \E[7~              Xenix Sent by END Key
G1 None         None           k                  Xenix Upper-Right Corner Character
G2 None         None           l                  Xenix Upper-Left Corner Character
G3 None         None           m                  Xenix Lower-Left Corner Character
G4 None         None           j                  Xenix Lower-Right Corner Character
GC None         None           n                  Xenix Center Graphics (+) Character
GD None         None           w                  Xenix Down Tick Character
ge m            None           None               UNIFY Lower left square corner
GE None         None           \E(B               Xenix Graphics Mode End
gf l            None           None               UNIFY Upper left square corner
gg k            None           None               UNIFY Upper right square corner
gh j            None           None               UNIFY Lower right square corner
GH None         None           q                  Xenix Horizontal bar Character
gi n            None           None               UNIFY + intersection
gj x            None           None               UNIFY vertical bar
gk q            None           None               UNIFY Horizontal bar
gl u            None           None               UNIFY --| intersection
GL None         None           u                  Xenix Left Tick Character
gm t            None           None               UNIFY |-- intersection
gn w            None           None               generic line type (eg, dialup)
gn w            None           None               UNIFY T intersection
go v            None           None               UNIFY _|_ intersection
GR None         None           t                  Xenix Right Tick Character
gs \E(0         None           None               UNIFY start graphics mode
GS None         None           \E(0               Xenix Graphics Mode Start
GU None         None           v                  Xenix Up-Tick Character
GV None         None           x                  Xenix Vertical Bar Character
gx \E(B         None           None               UNIFY exit graphics mode
ho \E[H         \E[H           \E[H               home cursor (if not cm)
ic \E[@         None           \E[@               insert character
im None         \E[4h          None               insert mode (enter)
it None         8              None               initial tabs every n spaces
k0 \EOP         None           \E[21~             sent by other function key 0
k1 \EOQ         None           \E[11~             sent by other function key 1
k2 \EOR         None           \E[12~             sent by other function key 2
k3 \EOS         None           \E[13~             sent by other function key 3
k4 \E[15~       None           \E[14~             sent by other function key 4
k5 \E[17~       None           \E[15~             sent by other function key 5
k6 \E[18~       None           \E[17~             sent by other function key 6
k7 \E[19~       None           \E[18~             sent by other function key 7
k8 \E[20~       None           \E[19~             sent by other function key 8
k9 \E[21~       None           \E[20~             sent by other function key 9
kb \b           \177           \b                 sent by backspace key
kB None         \E[Z           None               sent by reverse-tab key
kD None         \E[3~          None               sent by delete-character key
ku \E[A         \EOA           \E[A               sent by terminal up arrow key
kd \E[B         \EOB           \E[B               sent by terminal down arrow key
kl \E[D         \EOD           \E[D               sent by terminal left arrow key
kr \E[C         \EOC           \E[C               sent by terminal right arrow key
ke None         \E[?1l\E>      None               out of keypad-transmit mode
kF None         \E[1;2B        None               sent by scroll-forward/down key
kh None         \EOH           \E[8~              sent by home key
kI None         \E[2~          None               sent by ins-char/enter-ins-mode key
km True         True           True               has meta-shift key
kN None         \E[6~          None               sent by next-page key
kP None         \E[5~          None               sent by previous-page key
kR None         \E[1;2A        None               sent by scroll-backward/up key
ks None         \E[?1h\E=      None               put terminl in keypad-transmit mode
le None         ^H             None               cursor left
LE \E[%dD       \E[%dD         \E[%dD             FILEPRO-16 dprt Display Print Codes
li 24           24             24                 number of lines on screen or page
mb None         \E[5m          None               enter blink enhance
md None         \E[1m          None               enter bold mode
me None         \E[0m          None               exit attribute mode (normal mode)
mi True         True           True               safe to move while in insert mode
mk None         \E[8m          None               enter blank enhance
ml None         \El            None               memory lock on above cursor
mr None         \E[7m          None               enter reverse enhance
ms True         True           True               safe to move while in so & ul mode
mu None         \Em            None               memory unlock (turnoff memory lock)
nd \E[C         \E[C           \E[C               nondestructive space (cursor right)
P0 \E[2~        None           None               FILEPRO-16 insc Insert Character
P1 ^?           None           None               FILEPRO-16 delc Delete Character
P2 \E[7~        None           None               FILEPRO-16 insl Insert Line
P3 \E[P         None           None               FILEPRO-16 dell Delete Line
P4 \E[6~        None           None               FILEPRO-16 save record [ESC] [ESC]
PD None         None           \E[6~              Multiplan sent by PAGE DOWN key
pf None         \E[4i          None               turn off the printer
po None         \E[5i          None               turn on the printer
ps None         \E[i           None               UNIFY Start Protect, print screen
pt True         None           True               has hardware tabs
PU None         None           \E[5~              Multiplan sent by PAGE UP key
rc \E8          \E8            \E8                restore cursor to positn of last sc
SA None         \E[?7h         None               Printer, Standard 10 Pitch
sc \E7          \E7            \E7                save cursor position
se \E[m         \E[27m         \E[m               end stand out mode
sf None         ^J             None               scroll forwards
so \E[7m        \E[7m          \E[7m              begin stand out mode
sr \EM          \EM            \EM                scroll reverse (backwards)
st \EH          \EH            \EH                set a tab in current column
ta None         ^I             None               tab
tc None         xterm-new      None               goto terminal - must be last
te None         \E[?1049l      \E[2J\E[?47l\E8    string to end programs that use cm
ti None         \E[?1049h      \E7\E[?47h         string to begin progs that use cm
ue \E[m         \E[24m         \E[m               end underscore mode
UP \E[%dA       \E[%dA         \E[%dA             Sent by Up-Arrow (alt to ku)
up \E[A         \E[A           \E[A               upline (cursor up)
us \E[4m        \E[4m          \E[4m              start underscore mode
vb None         \E[?5h\E[?5l   None               visible bell (may not move cursor)
ve None         \E[?12l\E[?25h None               sequence to end open/visual mode
vi None         \E[?25l        None               put terminal in visual mode
vs None         \E[?12;25h     None               sequence to start open/visual mode
xn True         True           True               newline ignord after wrap (Concept)

From rkreiss at verizon.net  Fri Mar 19 07:57:56 2010
From: rkreiss at verizon.net (Richard Kreiss)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 10:57:56 -0400
Subject: FW: Code & screen shot -  HTML formatted email
In-Reply-To: <4BA27411.2060702@spamcop.net>
References: <0KZH00JEYOKZPYA2@vms173019.mailsrvcs.net>
	<4BA27411.2060702@spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <009401cac774$8f9a5370$aecefa50$@net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kenneth Brody [mailto:kenbrody at spamcop.net]
> Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 2:42 PM
> To: Rkreiss at verizon.net]
> Cc: 'FilePro Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: FW: Code & screen shot - HTML formatted email
> 
> On 3/18/2010 1:58 PM, Rkreiss at verizon.net] wrote:
> > Ken,
> >
> > I put in tbe code as this is an @key function which is the selected from
a list
> box.
> >
> > The problem, as illustrated, happens as soon as the command is executed.
> 
> So, if you run the debugger, the bleed-through occurs immediately after
> executing the MEMO...SHOW statement?
> 
> > Some is different in how memo nn show window works and how the window
> displays using memo nn edit.
> >
> > As i indicatedm only information in dummy fields bleed through.
> [...]
> 
> The problem is that you only show 11 lines of your processing table.
What's
> to say it's not something in one of the multitude of lines that you didn't
> show that are the problem?
> 
> Create a prc table consisting of just those 11 lines (with the addition of
> your @KEY label).  Then, run dclerk with that prc and no automatic
> processing (ie: running with only the 11 lines that you showed us), and
see
> if the still fails.
> 
> If that doesn't fail, then the problem lies elsewhere.
> 
> --
> Kenneth Brody

Ken,

Thanks for your suggestions.

Tested Bill's suggestion that I stop auto processing from running as the
show window comes up first, then auto processing runs causing the bleed
through.

This worked with one caveat, the white line boarder around the window
disappears in sections.

One other question which arose during this test, I used putenv "isshow","y"
in input and then checked it in auto to end the auto processing.

When I used putenv "isshow","N" at @keyC which cleared the memo window, the
value did not change.  Is this value locked for the remainder of this clerk
run or should it have been changed when a new putenv was issued?

Richard



From rkreiss at verizon.net  Fri Mar 19 08:50:53 2010
From: rkreiss at verizon.net (Richard Kreiss)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 11:50:53 -0400
Subject: OT: Server pricing 1999
Message-ID: <009e01cac77b$f52fb610$df8f2230$@net>

Just cleaning out some file and came across pricing for server from a white
box company in NY from April 23, 199

P3 Xeon 500 MHz w.512K memory
SuperMicro Dual Xeon GX chipset, Adaptec 7890 SCSI Ultra 2 Wide, 128 PC100
ECC SDRAM, 2 9.1 Barracuda Fast SCSI-3 drive, 1 3.5 FDD, 8Mb AGP 3D video,
ATX full tower case, 32X NEC SCSI CS-ROM, sound Blaster 15, speaker
keyboard, mouse 3Com 3C905B-tx NIC Windows Server NT 5 user license
$3,299.00

If I go back further, my fist Radio Shack Model II with 64K of memory, the 3
drive expansion bay, a 9 pin wide carriage dot matrix printer, cable and
Profile cost me somewhere near $8,000.00.  I think there was some more
software & hardware involved in that purchase but I don?t remember any more.

Oh, back to work - some much for another walk down memory lane.


Richard Kreiss
GCC Consulting
rkreiss at gccconsulting.net
? 








From amazu at trusteeservicesinc.com  Fri Mar 19 09:12:20 2010
From: amazu at trusteeservicesinc.com (Alan Mazuti)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 09:12:20 -0700
Subject: Comments on FilePro installation and Linux xterm (mis)handling.
In-Reply-To: <20100319043655.GA21749@ayn.mi.celestial.com>
References: <20100319043655.GA21749@ayn.mi.celestial.com>
Message-ID: <000801cac77e$f5732050$e05960f0$@com>

And you think Obama is going to get the health care bill passed.

-----Original Message-----
From: filepro-list-bounces+amazu=trusteeservicesinc.com at lists.celestial.com
[mailto:filepro-list-bounces+amazu=trusteeservicesinc.com at lists.celestial.co
m] On Behalf Of Bill Campbell
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:37 PM
To: filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
Subject: Comments on FilePro installation and Linux xterm (mis)handling.

I have been preparing to help move several FilePro systems from SCO
OpenServer to Linux, so installed FP 5.6.0 on one of our CentOS 5 machines
here to get myself back up to speed on this after several years of being
away from direct FilePro usage.

I have to say that I am singularly unimpressed with the installation
procedure which seems hardly changed from the days when John Esak was the
Small Computer Company in D.C. over 20 years ago.  The terminal handling for
the standard Linux xterm, which used to work, doesn't display the borders
properly, sending incorrect codes to the screen, not what is in the
pf/termcap.

Here are my first impressions during the install (first as it's been long
enough since I last did this that I had to figure it out again when starting
from a tarball).

There is no README or INSTALL file in the base directory with instructions
on how to install the software.  I had to poke around in the top level
directory to figure out what to do.

The name of the installation script, finish, is dumb.  This should be
install.sh or something obvious.  True enough the the FilePro install has,
to the best of my recollection, used this same name forever, but at least
have a README to say so.

The installation script appears to look for the less pager, but should honor
the PAGER environment variable instead of using ``pg'' or whatever.

The installation script ignores the user's PATH environment variable,
complaining the the specified location for the ``pf''
startup script isn't in the PATH although it definately is.

There should be some obvious way to specify the license file at the time of
the installation.

The installation and pf scripts should return the display to the original
settings, not leave it in black background with white foreground.  I think
this has been covered ad nauseum on this list, and I would think by this
time it should be fixed.

The TERMCAP handling is horrible with garbage line drawing graphics.  This
is fundamentally broken, sending ESC[46m, a bunch of non-ascii character,
then ESC[10m instead of the proper codes for graphics,
ESC[0mlqqqqqqqqq...qqkESC(B for the top border (these taken from the output
of the ``script'' command running ``pf'' and a python curses application
with a similar border).  I can't figure out where the ESC[46m comes from as
it's not in either the pf/termcap or /etc/termcap files.

I checked the runmenu program with ldd to be sure that the problems are not
related to shared library differences.

I am attaching a comparison of the pf/termcap, /etc/termcap, and our local
termcap file which we normally put in the TERMCAP environment variable.  I
have ignored the terminal initialization string, ``is'' to keep the column
width down, but they are the same on pf/termcap and ours.  The left column
is the termcap code, the second the pf/termcap, the third is /etc/termcap
from the CentOS 5 system, and the fourth the one we have been using for over
a decade.

Finally, the FilePro program ignores the COLUMNS and LINES environment
variables so don't adjust the display size to resized xterm windows.

In summary, there are several things that could/should be done to the
installation script to (a) make them easier to understand for the average
person, and (b) recognize user defined environment variables, (particularly
PAGER and PATH).  The termcap handling appears to be getting its information
for the line-drawing characters someplace other than the termcap file.

The TERMCAP environment variable set in the pf startup script should refer
to the installer's prefered termcap, with perhaps a second environment
variable to point to the pf/termcap file.  Any termcap customization should
be done, not by editing the /etc/termcap file, but in a separate file that
won't be changed by the vendor's update procedures with the TERMCAP
environment variable referring to the customized file.  FilePro used to do
this, first using /etc/termcap or the TERMCAP file, then adding the
definitions from the pf/termcap file (mostly HELP labels for FilePro's
special function keys).

I think a major reason for this two-step processing was the 1024 character
limit on termcap entries.

Bill
-- 
INTERNET:   bill at celestial.com  Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC
URL: http://www.celestial.com/  PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way
Voice:          (206) 236-1676  Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820
Fax:            (206) 232-9186  Skype: jwccsllc (206) 855-5792

A perpetual and unlimited debt represents deficit spending as a social
principle. It means a progressive redistribution of wealth by will of
government until there is no more fat to divide; after that comes a level
rationing of the national income. It means in the end the cheapening of
money and then inflation, whereby the middle class is economically murdered
in its sleep. In the arsenal of revolution the perfect weapon is inflation.
-- Garet Garrett, The Revolution Was


From kenbrody at spamcop.net  Fri Mar 19 09:42:01 2010
From: kenbrody at spamcop.net (Kenneth Brody)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 12:42:01 -0400
Subject: FW: Code & screen shot -  HTML formatted email
In-Reply-To: <009401cac774$8f9a5370$aecefa50$@net>
References: <0KZH00JEYOKZPYA2@vms173019.mailsrvcs.net>
	<4BA27411.2060702@spamcop.net> <009401cac774$8f9a5370$aecefa50$@net>
Message-ID: <4BA3A959.1030404@spamcop.net>

On 3/19/2010 10:57 AM, Richard Kreiss wrote:
[...]
> Tested Bill's suggestion that I stop auto processing from running as the
> show window comes up first, then auto processing runs causing the bleed
> through.
>
> This worked with one caveat,

That tells me that you were doing what I said back on Tuesday:

> Have you modified the values of the fields that bleed through?  Try putting
> a DISPLAY before your MEMO command, to make sure the screen have been
> refreshed first.  Or, perchance, do you modify the fields "under" the popup
> after it is shown, but before it's taken down?

Your automatic processing is probably modifying fields "under" the popup.

> the white line boarder around the window disappears in sections.

My guess is that those are simply blank fields that happen to be under the 
border that are bleeding through.

> One other question which arose during this test, I used putenv "isshow","y"
> in input and then checked it in auto to end the auto processing.
>
> When I used putenv "isshow","N" at @keyC which cleared the memo window, the
> value did not change.  Is this value locked for the remainder of this clerk
> run or should it have been changed when a new putenv was issued?

GETENV() returns the current value, and PUTENV will change that value.

::end:
@entsel::show "isshow='" & getenv("isshow") & "' -- \{C} to change it":
::end:
@keyC::xx(20,*) = getenv("isshow"):
::input popup xx "New isshow> " default:
:@sk ne "brky":putenv "isshow", xx{"":
::end:

-- 
Kenneth Brody

From dmalen at malen.com  Fri Mar 19 13:35:52 2010
From: dmalen at malen.com (Dennis Malen)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 16:35:52 -0400
Subject: filepro: automating a process to log in to a web site
Message-ID: <014e01cac7a3$c6b8ffd0$0cb21309@dennisoffice>

We currently do processing through filePro that will FTP a file on the unix 
box and transfer it to a server so it appears on a desktop. In conjunction 
with that we also simultaneously email the file to a client.

QUESTION: Can filepro be programmed to open a website, answer some questions 
(password etc.) and either upload or download a file?

Can it be programmed or is there a program that can be purchased that 
performs those functions?


Dennis Malen
516.479.5912 


From kenbrody at spamcop.net  Fri Mar 19 13:47:34 2010
From: kenbrody at spamcop.net (Kenneth Brody)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 16:47:34 -0400
Subject: filepro: automating a process to log in to a web site
In-Reply-To: <014e01cac7a3$c6b8ffd0$0cb21309@dennisoffice>
References: <014e01cac7a3$c6b8ffd0$0cb21309@dennisoffice>
Message-ID: <4BA3E2E6.60209@spamcop.net>

On 3/19/2010 4:35 PM, Dennis Malen wrote:
> We currently do processing through filePro that will FTP a file on the unix
> box and transfer it to a server so it appears on a desktop. In conjunction
> with that we also simultaneously email the file to a client.
>
> QUESTION: Can filepro be programmed to open a website, answer some questions
> (password etc.) and either upload or download a file?
>
> Can it be programmed or is there a program that can be purchased that
> performs those functions?

Many ftp clients can take a script to automate things.  The Windows ftp 
client can be called with "ftp -s:filename" where "filename" is the name of 
the script file.

-- 
Kenneth Brody

From bill at celestial.com  Fri Mar 19 13:57:50 2010
From: bill at celestial.com (Bill Campbell)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 13:57:50 -0700
Subject: filepro: automating a process to log in to a web site
In-Reply-To: <014e01cac7a3$c6b8ffd0$0cb21309@dennisoffice>
References: <014e01cac7a3$c6b8ffd0$0cb21309@dennisoffice>
Message-ID: <20100319205750.GA4500@ayn.mi.celestial.com>

On Fri, Mar 19, 2010, Dennis Malen wrote:
>We currently do processing through filePro that will FTP a file on the unix 
>box and transfer it to a server so it appears on a desktop. In conjunction 
>with that we also simultaneously email the file to a client.
>
>QUESTION: Can filepro be programmed to open a website, answer some questions 
>(password etc.) and either upload or download a file?
>
>Can it be programmed or is there a program that can be purchased that 
>performs those functions?

There are standard libraries for python and perl that handle this
sort of thing quite nicely.  I use the python urllib frequently,
or, better yet, the python xml-rpc is very easy to use (perl's
isn't :-) if the web site supports it.

Bill
-- 
INTERNET:   bill at celestial.com  Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC
URL: http://www.celestial.com/  PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way
Voice:          (206) 236-1676  Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820
Fax:            (206) 232-9186  Skype: jwccsllc (206) 855-5792

the purpose of government is to reign in the rights of the people
    -Bill Clinton during an interview on MTV in 1993

From fairlite at fairlite.com  Fri Mar 19 14:04:00 2010
From: fairlite at fairlite.com (Fairlight)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 17:04:00 -0400
Subject: filepro: automating a process to log in to a web site
In-Reply-To: <20100319205750.GA4500@ayn.mi.celestial.com>;
	from bill@celestial.com on Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 01:57:50PM -0700
References: <014e01cac7a3$c6b8ffd0$0cb21309@dennisoffice>
	<20100319205750.GA4500@ayn.mi.celestial.com>
Message-ID: <20100319170400.A20031@iglou.com>

Confusious (Bill Campbell) say:
> 
> There are standard libraries for python and perl that handle this
> sort of thing quite nicely.  I use the python urllib frequently,
> or, better yet, the python xml-rpc is very easy to use (perl's
> isn't :-) if the web site supports it.

LWP is simple enough, though...

mark->
-- 
Audio panton, cogito singularis,

From beppler300 at verizon.net  Fri Mar 19 14:06:33 2010
From: beppler300 at verizon.net (Brandt Eppler)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 16:06:33 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: filepro: automating a process to log in to a web site
Message-ID: <781256023.1059719.1269032793896.JavaMail.root@vms170003.mailsrvcs.net>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.celestial.com/pipermail/filepro-list/attachments/20100319/c91e40ef/attachment.html 

From fairlite at fairlite.com  Fri Mar 19 14:12:10 2010
From: fairlite at fairlite.com (Fairlight)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 17:12:10 -0400
Subject: OT: Server pricing 1999
In-Reply-To: <009e01cac77b$f52fb610$df8f2230$@net>;
	from rkreiss@verizon.net on Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 11:50:53AM -0400
References: <009e01cac77b$f52fb610$df8f2230$@net>
Message-ID: <20100319171210.B20031@iglou.com>

The honourable and venerable Richard Kreiss spoke thus:
> P3 Xeon 500 MHz w.512K memory
> SuperMicro Dual Xeon GX chipset, Adaptec 7890 SCSI Ultra 2 Wide, 128 PC100
> ECC SDRAM, 2 9.1 Barracuda Fast SCSI-3 drive, 1 3.5 FDD, 8Mb AGP 3D video,
> ATX full tower case, 32X NEC SCSI CS-ROM, sound Blaster 15, speaker
> keyboard, mouse 3Com 3C905B-tx NIC Windows Server NT 5 user license
> $3,299.00
> 
> If I go back further, my fist Radio Shack Model II with 64K of memory, the 3
> drive expansion bay, a 9 pin wide carriage dot matrix printer, cable and
> Profile cost me somewhere near $8,000.00.  I think there was some more
> software & hardware involved in that purchase but I don?t remember any more.
> 
> Oh, back to work - some much for another walk down memory lane.

My first Apple ][e rig was the 6502 (rather than the Platinum Edition's
65c02, to which I later swapped chips so modem software would work with
flow control) model, with twin Apple Disk ][ 117KB floppy drives (that were
the size of 5.25" hard drives!), an 80-column card that had an extra 64KB
of RAM on top of the stock 64KB of RAM (but it was segmented--you had to
page back and forth to use all 128KB), and I had two monitors...one
Motorola monochrome, and a Commodore 1604 colour.  All told, I think it was
over $6500.

Nowadays, I could put together several i7/16GB/2TB systems with top of the
line 3D video cards for that cost.  I could literally buy four of my
current system (E8400 @ 3GHz, 3GB, wireless, 1TB, NVidia GTX 275 Co-Op PhysX
1280MB edition with the GTX 250 second GPU handling the PhysX, 16x DVD/RW).
I just ran the pricing and I could literally get four of those at spring
2008 prices (except the video card, which I just put in last weekend, so
that pricing is current) for the same amount.

I don't know which to feel...outraged that we got reamed so badly in the
old days, or happy that the hardware finally hit commodity levels so the
prices dropped.  Probably a bit of both.

mark->
-- 
Audio panton, cogito singularis,

From boaz at mirrotek.com  Fri Mar 19 14:12:27 2010
From: boaz at mirrotek.com (Boaz Bezborodko)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 17:12:27 -0400
Subject: Filepro-list Digest, Vol 74, Issue 28
In-Reply-To: <mailman.300.1269032648.5468.filepro-list@lists.celestial.com>
References: <mailman.300.1269032648.5468.filepro-list@lists.celestial.com>
Message-ID: <4BA3E8BB.4000202@mirrotek.com>

>
> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 16:35:52 -0400
> From: "Dennis Malen" <dmalen at malen.com>
> Subject: filepro: automating a process to log in to a web site
> To: <filepro-list at lists.celestial.com>
> Message-ID: <014e01cac7a3$c6b8ffd0$0cb21309 at dennisoffice>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> 	reply-type=original
>
> We currently do processing through filePro that will FTP a file on the unix 
> box and transfer it to a server so it appears on a desktop. In conjunction 
> with that we also simultaneously email the file to a client.
>
> QUESTION: Can filepro be programmed to open a website, answer some questions 
> (password etc.) and either upload or download a file?
>
> Can it be programmed or is there a program that can be purchased that 
> performs those functions?
>
>
> Dennis Malen
> 516.479.5912 

If the request for the file can be made as one URL string then you can 
use cURL for a SYSTEM command.

http://curl.haxx.se/
"curl is a command line tool for transferring data with URL syntax, 
supporting FTP, FTPS, HTTP, HTTPS, SCP, SFTP, TFTP, TELNET, DICT, LDAP, 
LDAPS, FILE, IMAP, SMTP, POP3 and RTSP. curl supports SSL certificates, 
HTTP POST, HTTP PUT, FTP uploading, HTTP form based upload, proxies, 
cookies, user+password authentication (Basic, Digest, NTLM, Negotiate, 
kerberos...), file transfer resume, proxy tunneling and a busload of 
other useful tricks <http://curl.haxx.se/docs/features.html>. "

Boaz
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.celestial.com/pipermail/filepro-list/attachments/20100319/8f381900/attachment.html 

From fairlite at fairlite.com  Fri Mar 19 14:15:58 2010
From: fairlite at fairlite.com (Fairlight)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 17:15:58 -0400
Subject: filepro: automating a process to log in to a web site
In-Reply-To: <014e01cac7a3$c6b8ffd0$0cb21309@dennisoffice>;
	from dmalen@malen.com on Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 04:35:52PM -0400
References: <014e01cac7a3$c6b8ffd0$0cb21309@dennisoffice>
Message-ID: <20100319171558.C20031@iglou.com>

On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 04:35:52PM -0400, Dennis Malen may or may not have
proven themselves an utter git by pronouncing:
> We currently do processing through filePro that will FTP a file on the unix 
> box and transfer it to a server so it appears on a desktop. In conjunction 
> with that we also simultaneously email the file to a client.
> 
> QUESTION: Can filepro be programmed to open a website, answer some questions 
> (password etc.) and either upload or download a file?
> 
> Can it be programmed or is there a program that can be purchased that 
> performs those functions?

What nobody's said so far is that uploading a file to a web site is HTTP,
which is not the same as FTP.  They're entirely different protocols.

Additionally, if logging in to the web site is a separate stage from the
upload or download, you'd need to track session information in whatever
form it comes.  Sometimes that's cookies, sometimes that's hidden form
fields.  In any event, yes, it's totally doable, but it's going to require
some non-trivial work, even if you have a client to handle the actual
transfers.

mark->
-- 
Audio panton, cogito singularis,

From dmalen at malen.com  Fri Mar 19 14:44:43 2010
From: dmalen at malen.com (Dennis Malen)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 17:44:43 -0400
Subject: filepro: automating a process to log in to a web site
References: <014e01cac7a3$c6b8ffd0$0cb21309@dennisoffice>
	<20100319171558.C20031@iglou.com>
Message-ID: <01a701cac7ad$62ec3f80$0cb21309@dennisoffice>

Thanks everyone. I now have enough to go on

Just wish there was a prepackaged program. I am sure many others have such a 
need.

Thanks again.

Dennis Malen
516.479.5912
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Fairlight" <fairlite at fairlite.com>
To: <filepro-list at lists.celestial.com>
Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 5:15 PM
Subject: Re: filepro: automating a process to log in to a web site


> On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 04:35:52PM -0400, Dennis Malen may or may not have
> proven themselves an utter git by pronouncing:
>> We currently do processing through filePro that will FTP a file on the 
>> unix
>> box and transfer it to a server so it appears on a desktop. In 
>> conjunction
>> with that we also simultaneously email the file to a client.
>>
>> QUESTION: Can filepro be programmed to open a website, answer some 
>> questions
>> (password etc.) and either upload or download a file?
>>
>> Can it be programmed or is there a program that can be purchased that
>> performs those functions?
>
> What nobody's said so far is that uploading a file to a web site is HTTP,
> which is not the same as FTP.  They're entirely different protocols.
>
> Additionally, if logging in to the web site is a separate stage from the
> upload or download, you'd need to track session information in whatever
> form it comes.  Sometimes that's cookies, sometimes that's hidden form
> fields.  In any event, yes, it's totally doable, but it's going to require
> some non-trivial work, even if you have a client to handle the actual
> transfers.
>
> mark->
> -- 
> Audio panton, cogito singularis,
> _______________________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing list
> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list 


From dmalen at malen.com  Mon Mar 22 07:35:01 2010
From: dmalen at malen.com (Dennis Malen)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 10:35:01 -0400
Subject: filepro: automating a process to log in to a web site
References: <014e01cac7a3$c6b8ffd0$0cb21309@dennisoffice>
	<20100319171558.C20031@iglou.com>
Message-ID: <006901cac9cc$dad628a0$0cb21309@dennisoffice>

Working on this solution over the weekend I did note Mark's observation.

He is correct in that it is not an FTP concern. I am looking for an HTML 
solution. If that changes anyone's response please let me know.

Thanks!

Dennis Malen
516.479.5912
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Fairlight" <fairlite at fairlite.com>
To: <filepro-list at lists.celestial.com>
Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 5:15 PM
Subject: Re: filepro: automating a process to log in to a web site


> On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 04:35:52PM -0400, Dennis Malen may or may not have
> proven themselves an utter git by pronouncing:
>> We currently do processing through filePro that will FTP a file on the 
>> unix
>> box and transfer it to a server so it appears on a desktop. In 
>> conjunction
>> with that we also simultaneously email the file to a client.
>>
>> QUESTION: Can filepro be programmed to open a website, answer some 
>> questions
>> (password etc.) and either upload or download a file?
>>
>> Can it be programmed or is there a program that can be purchased that
>> performs those functions?
>
> What nobody's said so far is that uploading a file to a web site is HTTP,
> which is not the same as FTP.  They're entirely different protocols.
>
> Additionally, if logging in to the web site is a separate stage from the
> upload or download, you'd need to track session information in whatever
> form it comes.  Sometimes that's cookies, sometimes that's hidden form
> fields.  In any event, yes, it's totally doable, but it's going to require
> some non-trivial work, even if you have a client to handle the actual
> transfers.
>
> mark->
> -- 
> Audio panton, cogito singularis,
> _______________________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing list
> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list 


From fairlite at fairlite.com  Mon Mar 22 08:08:26 2010
From: fairlite at fairlite.com (Fairlight)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 11:08:26 -0400
Subject: filepro: automating a process to log in to a web site
In-Reply-To: <006901cac9cc$dad628a0$0cb21309@dennisoffice>;
	from dmalen@malen.com on Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 10:35:01AM -0400
References: <014e01cac7a3$c6b8ffd0$0cb21309@dennisoffice>
	<20100319171558.C20031@iglou.com>
	<006901cac9cc$dad628a0$0cb21309@dennisoffice>
Message-ID: <20100322110826.C25112@iglou.com>

Yo, homey, in case you don' be listenin', Dennis Malen done said:
> Working on this solution over the weekend I did note Mark's observation.
> 
> He is correct in that it is not an FTP concern. I am looking for an HTML 
> solution. If that changes anyone's response please let me know.

You'll need a client that can do HTTP file uploads.  Curl fits the bill.

If you need to go through a multi-step login to get a session or the like,
you'd need to use the same program to first push login information to the
site, then you'd need programming to analyse whatever you get back for the
session information, be it cookie or field based, then you'd need to send
that information back with the client.

There's no way of knowing how much coding is involved without knowing the
site involved and seeing how one gets to the upload process.  It could be
as simple as just pointing the right client at a URL with the requisite
files, or it could involve multiple requests, responses, and parses.
Depends if the upload area is protected, and if so, how.

mark->

From dmalen at malen.com  Mon Mar 22 08:36:01 2010
From: dmalen at malen.com (Dennis Malen)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 11:36:01 -0400
Subject: filepro: automating a process to log in to a web site
References: <014e01cac7a3$c6b8ffd0$0cb21309@dennisoffice>
	<20100319171558.C20031@iglou.com>
	<006901cac9cc$dad628a0$0cb21309@dennisoffice>
	<20100322110826.C25112@iglou.com>
Message-ID: <00f401cac9d5$61406e70$0cb21309@dennisoffice>

Thanks! We are looking at "cURL" now. That may do it.

Dennis Malen
516.479.5912
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Fairlight" <fairlite at fairlite.com>
To: <filepro-list at lists.celestial.com>
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: filepro: automating a process to log in to a web site


> Yo, homey, in case you don' be listenin', Dennis Malen done said:
>> Working on this solution over the weekend I did note Mark's observation.
>>
>> He is correct in that it is not an FTP concern. I am looking for an HTML
>> solution. If that changes anyone's response please let me know.
>
> You'll need a client that can do HTTP file uploads.  Curl fits the bill.
>
> If you need to go through a multi-step login to get a session or the like,
> you'd need to use the same program to first push login information to the
> site, then you'd need programming to analyse whatever you get back for the
> session information, be it cookie or field based, then you'd need to send
> that information back with the client.
>
> There's no way of knowing how much coding is involved without knowing the
> site involved and seeing how one gets to the upload process.  It could be
> as simple as just pointing the right client at a URL with the requisite
> files, or it could involve multiple requests, responses, and parses.
> Depends if the upload area is protected, and if so, how.
>
> mark->
> _______________________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing list
> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list 


From bill at celestial.com  Mon Mar 22 12:30:09 2010
From: bill at celestial.com (Bill Campbell)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 12:30:09 -0700
Subject: Attachment test.
Message-ID: <20100322193009.GA15886@ayn.mi.celestial.com>

I just found an interesting option in Mailman that is supposed to
strip attachment from messages, put them on the Mailman server,
then replace the attachment with a URL to retrieve the attachment.

This does not affect the maximum message size limit of the
incoming mail server, but should reduce the size of outgoing
messages to the list.

The attached 'toon is from the Schlock Mercenary strip:

	http://www.schlockmercenary.com/

Bill
-- 
INTERNET:   bill at celestial.com  Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC
URL: http://www.celestial.com/  PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way
Voice:          (206) 236-1676  Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820
Fax:            (206) 232-9186  Skype: jwccsllc (206) 855-5792

Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: schlock20090914.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 130754 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mailman.celestial.com/pipermail/filepro-list/attachments/20100322/04954e00/attachment.jpg 

From bill at celestial.com  Mon Mar 22 13:29:25 2010
From: bill at celestial.com (Bill Campbell)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 13:29:25 -0700
Subject: Attachment test.
In-Reply-To: <20100322193009.GA15886@ayn.mi.celestial.com>
References: <20100322193009.GA15886@ayn.mi.celestial.com>
Message-ID: <A8D1E7DA-EABF-4570-A726-5C1C8401C162@celestial.com>

I am sending this message from Apple's Mail.app with the compose option
set to use ``rich text'' which should result in a multi-part text/html message.

I want to see if it strips off the HTML section into an attachment.

On Mar 22, 2010, at 12:30 PM, Bill Campbell wrote:

> I just found an interesting option in Mailman that is supposed to
> strip attachment from messages, put them on the Mailman server,
> then replace the attachment with a URL to retrieve the attachment.
> 
> This does not affect the maximum message size limit of the
> incoming mail server, but should reduce the size of outgoing
> messages to the list.
> 
> The attached 'toon is from the Schlock Mercenary strip:
> 
> 	http://www.schlockmercenary.com/
> 
> Bill
> -- 
> INTERNET:   bill at celestial.com  Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC
> URL: http://www.celestial.com/  PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way
> Voice:          (206) 236-1676  Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820
> Fax:            (206) 232-9186  Skype: jwccsllc (206) 855-5792
> 
> Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.
> -------------- next part --------------
> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> Name: schlock20090914.jpg
> Type: image/jpeg
> Size: 130754 bytes
> Desc: not available
> Url : http://mailman.celestial.com/pipermail/filepro-list/attachments/20100322/04954e00/attachment.jpg 
> _______________________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing list
> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
> 


From fairlite at fairlite.com  Mon Mar 22 15:03:22 2010
From: fairlite at fairlite.com (Fairlight)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 18:03:22 -0400
Subject: Attachment test.
In-Reply-To: <A8D1E7DA-EABF-4570-A726-5C1C8401C162@celestial.com>;
	from bill@celestial.com on Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 01:29:25PM -0700
References: <20100322193009.GA15886@ayn.mi.celestial.com>
	<A8D1E7DA-EABF-4570-A726-5C1C8401C162@celestial.com>
Message-ID: <20100322180322.D5514@iglou.com>

When asked his whereabouts on Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 01:29:25PM -0700,
Bill Campbell took the fifth, drank it, and then slurred:
> I am sending this message from Apple's Mail.app with the compose option
> set to use ``rich text'' which should result in a multi-part text/html message.
> 
> I want to see if it strips off the HTML section into an attachment.

Can we just put in a procmail rule to dump main header content types
text/html and mixed/alternative to /dev/null?  :)

If there's an image involved, that -should- be only multipart/mixed.  The
alternative subtype is -supposed- to be only when one part is an
alternative for another.

I suppose I don't care as much about alternative, but the html-only should
just be tossed, IMNSHO.  My $0.02.

Neat feature on the attachments, btw.

mark->

From bill at celestial.com  Mon Mar 22 15:10:36 2010
From: bill at celestial.com (Bill Campbell)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 15:10:36 -0700
Subject: Attachment test.
In-Reply-To: <20100322180322.D5514@iglou.com>
References: <20100322193009.GA15886@ayn.mi.celestial.com>
	<A8D1E7DA-EABF-4570-A726-5C1C8401C162@celestial.com>
	<20100322180322.D5514@iglou.com>
Message-ID: <20100322221036.GA25958@ayn.mi.celestial.com>

On Mon, Mar 22, 2010, Fairlight wrote:
>When asked his whereabouts on Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 01:29:25PM -0700,
>Bill Campbell took the fifth, drank it, and then slurred:
>> I am sending this message from Apple's Mail.app with the compose option
>> set to use ``rich text'' which should result in a multi-part text/html message.
>> 
>> I want to see if it strips off the HTML section into an attachment.
>
>Can we just put in a procmail rule to dump main header content types
>text/html and mixed/alternative to /dev/null?  :)

I don't use procmail, much preferring Chip Salzenberg's deliver.

That's irrelevant with Mailman as it handles everything itself.

>If there's an image involved, that -should- be only multipart/mixed.  The
>alternative subtype is -supposed- to be only when one part is an
>alternative for another.

Should implies standards-compliant mail agents.  They're getting
better than they have been in the past.

>I suppose I don't care as much about alternative, but the html-only should
>just be tossed, IMNSHO.  My $0.02.

It will be interesting to see what happens to these with the
setting I changed this afternoon.

>Neat feature on the attachments, btw.

The horde/imp webmail can do much the same thing, and I normally
configure it to handle attachments as links without offering a
choice to the user.  Doing it in Mailman though doesn't require
any action on the part of the sender which makes it useful
without requiring any thought on their part.

Bill
-- 
INTERNET:   bill at celestial.com  Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC
URL: http://www.celestial.com/  PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way
Voice:          (206) 236-1676  Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820
Fax:            (206) 232-9186  Skype: jwccsllc (206) 855-5792

"The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the
transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." -- Patrick Henry

From brian at aljex.com  Mon Mar 22 18:31:47 2010
From: brian at aljex.com (Brian K. White)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 21:31:47 -0400
Subject: Attachment test.
In-Reply-To: <20100322180322.D5514@iglou.com>
References: <20100322193009.GA15886@ayn.mi.celestial.com>	<A8D1E7DA-EABF-4570-A726-5C1C8401C162@celestial.com>
	<20100322180322.D5514@iglou.com>
Message-ID: <4BA81A03.8020104@aljex.com>

On 3/22/2010 6:03 PM, Fairlight wrote:
> When asked his whereabouts on Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 01:29:25PM -0700,
> Bill Campbell took the fifth, drank it, and then slurred:
>> I am sending this message from Apple's Mail.app with the compose option
>> set to use ``rich text'' which should result in a multi-part text/html message.
>>
>> I want to see if it strips off the HTML section into an attachment.
>
> Can we just put in a procmail rule to dump main header content types
> text/html and mixed/alternative to /dev/null?  :)
>
> If there's an image involved, that -should- be only multipart/mixed.  The
> alternative subtype is -supposed- to be only when one part is an
> alternative for another.
>
> I suppose I don't care as much about alternative, but the html-only should
> just be tossed, IMNSHO.  My $0.02.

I think html provides a valuable feature in an ideal and non-heinous way 
to dumb clients that don't support it, much as mime-formatting does.

The fact that some people, even most people, abuse html in a way that is 
heinous to almost everything and everyone involved with the handling of 
that mail, is not html's fault, and I don't see why responsible users 
should be penalized by being denied the functionality.

Unless you are just saying that the rule here has been stated as plain 
text and so, since that's the rule, there is no possible harm to any 
legitimate messages or users in simply enforcing it? I can only weakly 
argue with that if that has ever actually been asserted as a hard rule. 
I can argue pretty strongly against zero-tolerance in almost any context 
in general and in this context in particular.

-- 
bkw

From bill at celestial.com  Mon Mar 22 18:55:51 2010
From: bill at celestial.com (Bill Campbell)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 18:55:51 -0700
Subject: Attachment test.
In-Reply-To: <4BA81A03.8020104@aljex.com>
References: <20100322193009.GA15886@ayn.mi.celestial.com>
	<A8D1E7DA-EABF-4570-A726-5C1C8401C162@celestial.com>
	<20100322180322.D5514@iglou.com> <4BA81A03.8020104@aljex.com>
Message-ID: <20100323015551.GA28200@ayn.mi.celestial.com>

On Mon, Mar 22, 2010, Brian K. White wrote:
>On 3/22/2010 6:03 PM, Fairlight wrote:
>> When asked his whereabouts on Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 01:29:25PM -0700,
>> Bill Campbell took the fifth, drank it, and then slurred:
>>> I am sending this message from Apple's Mail.app with the compose option
>>> set to use ``rich text'' which should result in a multi-part text/html message.
>>>
>>> I want to see if it strips off the HTML section into an attachment.
>>
>> Can we just put in a procmail rule to dump main header content types
>> text/html and mixed/alternative to /dev/null?  :)
>>
>> If there's an image involved, that -should- be only multipart/mixed.  The
>> alternative subtype is -supposed- to be only when one part is an
>> alternative for another.
>>
>> I suppose I don't care as much about alternative, but the html-only should
>> just be tossed, IMNSHO.  My $0.02.
>
>I think html provides a valuable feature in an ideal and non-heinous way 
>to dumb clients that don't support it, much as mime-formatting does.
>
>The fact that some people, even most people, abuse html in a way that is 
>heinous to almost everything and everyone involved with the handling of 
>that mail, is not html's fault, and I don't see why responsible users 
>should be penalized by being denied the functionality.
>
>Unless you are just saying that the rule here has been stated as plain 
>text and so, since that's the rule, there is no possible harm to any 
>legitimate messages or users in simply enforcing it? I can only weakly 
>argue with that if that has ever actually been asserted as a hard rule. 
>I can argue pretty strongly against zero-tolerance in almost any context 
>in general and in this context in particular.

We have never said that the list is plain-text only, and I don't
think the option I set today will strip html from messages.  I
could well be wrong about that, and won't know until somebody
tries posting something.

On the other hand, I don't often use a mail client that's real
happy with html, and the fancy formatting often makes things
difficult to read (and I'm an order of magnitude less blind than
John Esak as I only have a -19.5 diopter correction).

One factor that people should consider is that html-only messages
generally result in high spamassassin scores so may well be
dropped if their score is too high or delayed as they get sent
for moderation.  When recruiters ask about posting to several
user group's jobs mailing lists we host, I always recommend that
they send plain-text if they want to reach the widest audience.

Bill
-- 
INTERNET:   bill at celestial.com  Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC
URL: http://www.celestial.com/  PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way
Voice:          (206) 236-1676  Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820
Fax:            (206) 232-9186  Skype: jwccsllc (206) 855-5792

It must be said, that like the breaking of a great dam, the American
decent into Marxism is happening with breath taking speed, against
the back drop of a passive, hapless sheeple, excuse me dear reader,
I meant people.
 -- Pravda http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/107459-0/

From fairlite at fairlite.com  Mon Mar 22 20:46:04 2010
From: fairlite at fairlite.com (Fairlight)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 23:46:04 -0400
Subject: Attachment test.
In-Reply-To: <4BA81A03.8020104@aljex.com>;
	from brian@aljex.com on Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 09:31:47PM -0400
References: <20100322193009.GA15886@ayn.mi.celestial.com>
	<A8D1E7DA-EABF-4570-A726-5C1C8401C162@celestial.com>
	<20100322180322.D5514@iglou.com> <4BA81A03.8020104@aljex.com>
Message-ID: <20100322234603.A12255@iglou.com>

>From inside the gravity well of a singularity, Brian K. White shouted:
> On 3/22/2010 6:03 PM, Fairlight wrote:
> 
> I think html provides a valuable feature in an ideal and non-heinous way 
> to dumb clients that don't support it, much as mime-formatting does.

I think HTML is a valuable technology for web sites.  Personally I don't
feel email ever should have been bastardised to the point where you have a
2k message in text/plain in alternative part 1, and then a ~25-75%+
(usually on the higher end, in my experiences) bloated text/html version of
the same message in alternative part 2.  

The fact that many mail clients use -the- most bloated way of marking up
content (every single paragraph, or sometimes sentence having its own font
and colour styles embedded inline...without using classes!) does not make
me feel any better about the bloat.

Using non-alternative, but -only- text/html is just plain stupid, as you're
missing a segment of your audience, especially in a list context--and
especially with a lot of old timers like we have here.

The bottom line philosohically is that text/plain is the lingua franca of
email.  Everyone can interpret and render it 100% faithfully, and it
just plain simplifies matters.

> The fact that some people, even most people, abuse html in a way that is 
> heinous to almost everything and everyone involved with the handling of 
> that mail, is not html's fault, and I don't see why responsible users 
> should be penalized by being denied the functionality.

Well, it isn't and is HTML's fault.  HTML wasn't designed thoroughly enough
to begin with, in hindsight.  The organic shift from version to version
with clearly demonstrable problems regarding backwards compatibility,
deprication, and a mix of the two is...  Well, it got us where we are
today, having programs mark things up explicitly with 3.2 syntax because
that's the way it used to be done, and then adding in XHTML features
because some things were wanted that came later.  And MS just adds in weird
stuff because they're MS.  :)

HTML is not really an example of a specification with a healthy evolution,
if you ask me.

> Unless you are just saying that the rule here has been stated as plain 
> text and so, since that's the rule, there is no possible harm to any 
> legitimate messages or users in simply enforcing it? I can only weakly 
> argue with that if that has ever actually been asserted as a hard rule. 
> I can argue pretty strongly against zero-tolerance in almost any context 
> in general and in this context in particular.

There's never been a hard rule, as Bill said.  It's been a strong
contention of nettiquette for ages, though.  And the easiest way to make
the attendant problems go away is enforcement, yeah.  Call it an
administrative fantasy.  :)

The case for arguing against zero tolerance is amusing to me in general.  I
find it amusing when people argue for tolerance in general, really.  People
-love- to spout off about tolerance this, tolerance that...until they run
into someone who's intolerant.  Then these tolerance preaching folk show
their true colours when they're demonstrably entirely intolerant of the
intolerant.  Which point makes them instant hypocrites and tanks their
credibility.  I find myself incredibly suspicious of people that actively
preach any kind of tolerance, since most brands of tolerance are tantamount
to, "Tolerate everyone--as long as they're doing things in a way we find
acceptable."

I avoid the hypocrisy and just speak my mind on any given point.  I can
be flat-out -intolerant-, and while it might be unpopular and unpolitic,
I can't be called a hypocrite when I need to express my displeasure with
something.  Up-front intolerance is a far more honest approach, IMNSHO.
It's also probably healthier, as you don't have to hide anything or bottle
things up--you speak your mind and move on.

mark->
-- 
Audio panton, cogito singularis,

From kenbrody at spamcop.net  Tue Mar 23 07:41:08 2010
From: kenbrody at spamcop.net (Kenneth Brody)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 10:41:08 -0400
Subject: OT: tolerance (was Re: Attachment test.)
In-Reply-To: <20100322234603.A12255@iglou.com>
References: <20100322193009.GA15886@ayn.mi.celestial.com>
	<A8D1E7DA-EABF-4570-A726-5C1C8401C162@celestial.com>
	<20100322180322.D5514@iglou.com> <4BA81A03.8020104@aljex.com>
	<20100322234603.A12255@iglou.com>
Message-ID: <4BA8D304.8020904@spamcop.net>

On 3/22/2010 11:46 PM, Fairlight wrote:
[...]
> The case for arguing against zero tolerance is amusing to me in general.

I'm not sure what that means.

> I
> find it amusing when people argue for tolerance in general, really.  People
> -love- to spout off about tolerance this, tolerance that...until they run
> into someone who's intolerant.  Then these tolerance preaching folk show
> their true colours when they're demonstrably entirely intolerant of the
> intolerant.  Which point makes them instant hypocrites and tanks their
> credibility.  I find myself incredibly suspicious of people that actively
> preach any kind of tolerance, since most brands of tolerance are tantamount
> to, "Tolerate everyone--as long as they're doing things in a way we find
> acceptable."

What's wrong with "you have a right to be stupid/ignorant/racist/whatever, 
and to think and say your stupid/ignorant/racist/whatever things, but I have 
a right to call you out on it, and point out in excruciating detail just how 
stupid/ignorant/racist/whatever you really are"?

> I avoid the hypocrisy and just speak my mind on any given point.  I can
> be flat-out -intolerant-, and while it might be unpopular and unpolitic,
> I can't be called a hypocrite when I need to express my displeasure with
> something.  Up-front intolerance is a far more honest approach, IMNSHO.
> It's also probably healthier, as you don't have to hide anything or bottle
> things up--you speak your mind and move on.

I don't think you need to worry about anyone on this list calling you 
"politically correct".

-- 
Kenneth Brody

From boaz at mirrotek.com  Tue Mar 23 07:58:12 2010
From: boaz at mirrotek.com (Boaz Bezborodko)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 10:58:12 -0400
Subject: I need help formatting a text portion on a form
Message-ID: <4BA8D704.1080803@mirrotek.com>

I am starting business with a customer where I have to print out their 
packing slip form my system.  They send me all the information in a file 
which I import into my order system and I need to get some of the 
information onto a form in the format that they use.  One of the fields 
is a message to the recipient that takes a 148 character field and 
requires that it be formatted into a 37-character by 4 line note on the 
form with proper word-wrap.

I was going to use a memo field so that I can use FP's embedding-object 
functions to do the formatting.  But I
m having trouble getting the information into the memo field.  I am 
using OPEN(), WRITELINE(), and CLOSE() to create a temporary file and 
then issue the command MEMO xx IMPORT "<filename>".  When I do this I 
get a general protection fault.and it craps out.

Am I doing something wrong?  Should I be doing this a different way?


From boaz at mirrotek.com  Tue Mar 23 08:12:26 2010
From: boaz at mirrotek.com (Boaz Bezborodko)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 11:12:26 -0400
Subject: I need help formatting a text portion on a form
In-Reply-To: <4BA8D9F3.6010602@fptech.com>
References: <4BA8D704.1080803@mirrotek.com> <4BA8D9F3.6010602@fptech.com>
Message-ID: <4BA8DA5A.9090105@mirrotek.com>



Bill Randall wrote:
>
>
> On 3/23/2010 10:58 AM, Boaz Bezborodko wrote:
>> I am starting business with a customer where I have to print out their
>> packing slip form my system.  They send me all the information in a file
>> which I import into my order system and I need to get some of the
>> information onto a form in the format that they use.  One of the fields
>> is a message to the recipient that takes a 148 character field and
>> requires that it be formatted into a 37-character by 4 line note on the
>> form with proper word-wrap.
>>
>> I was going to use a memo field so that I can use FP's embedding-object
>> functions to do the formatting.  But I
>> m having trouble getting the information into the memo field.  I am
>> using OPEN(), WRITELINE(), and CLOSE() to create a temporary file and
>> then issue the command MEMO xx IMPORT "<filename>".  When I do this I
>> get a general protection fault.and it craps out.
>>
>> Am I doing something wrong?  Should I be doing this a different way?
>>
>>    
>
> Can we see your actual syntax?  I just did a quick test and it worked 
> fine.
>
> Bill
>
:ord(53) ne "":ar=OPEN("MemoTemp.txt","rwc0t"):
:ord(53) ne "":as=WRITELINE(ar,ord(53)):
:ord(53) ne "":zy=CLOSE(ar):
:ord(53) ne "":MEMO 201 import "MemoTemp.txt":


From boaz at mirrotek.com  Tue Mar 23 08:27:49 2010
From: boaz at mirrotek.com (Boaz Bezborodko)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 11:27:49 -0400
Subject: I need help formatting a text portion on a form
In-Reply-To: <4BA8DB50.4090505@fptech.com>
References: <4BA8D704.1080803@mirrotek.com> <4BA8D9F3.6010602@fptech.com>
	<4BA8DA5A.9090105@mirrotek.com> <4BA8DB50.4090505@fptech.com>
Message-ID: <4BA8DDF5.7060109@mirrotek.com>



Bill Randall wrote:
>
>
> On 3/23/2010 11:12 AM, Boaz Bezborodko wrote:
>>
>>
>> Bill Randall wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/23/2010 10:58 AM, Boaz Bezborodko wrote:
>>>> I am starting business with a customer where I have to print out their
>>>> packing slip form my system.  They send me all the information in a 
>>>> file
>>>> which I import into my order system and I need to get some of the
>>>> information onto a form in the format that they use.  One of the 
>>>> fields
>>>> is a message to the recipient that takes a 148 character field and
>>>> requires that it be formatted into a 37-character by 4 line note on 
>>>> the
>>>> form with proper word-wrap.
>>>>
>>>> I was going to use a memo field so that I can use FP's 
>>>> embedding-object
>>>> functions to do the formatting.  But I
>>>> m having trouble getting the information into the memo field.  I am
>>>> using OPEN(), WRITELINE(), and CLOSE() to create a temporary file and
>>>> then issue the command MEMO xx IMPORT "<filename>".  When I do this I
>>>> get a general protection fault.and it craps out.
>>>>
>>>> Am I doing something wrong?  Should I be doing this a different way?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Can we see your actual syntax?  I just did a quick test and it 
>>> worked fine.
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>> :ord(53) ne "":ar=OPEN("MemoTemp.txt","rwc0t"):
>> :ord(53) ne "":as=WRITELINE(ar,ord(53)):
>> :ord(53) ne "":zy=CLOSE(ar):
>> :ord(53) ne "":MEMO 201 import "MemoTemp.txt":
>>
>>
> It may have something to do with the location of the file.  Try this.
>
> :ord(53) ne "":ar=OPEN("MemoTemp.txt","rwc0t"):
> :ord(53) ne "":as=WRITELINE(ar,ord(53)):
> :ord(53) ne "":zy=CLOSE(ar):
> :ord(53) ne "":fn="FullPathTo\MemoTemp.txt"
> :ord(53) ne "":MEMO 201 import (fn):
>
> Bill
>

I tried that and I still get the same thing.


Boaz

From boaz at mirrotek.com  Tue Mar 23 08:36:36 2010
From: boaz at mirrotek.com (Boaz Bezborodko)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 11:36:36 -0400
Subject: I need help formatting a text portion on a form
In-Reply-To: <4BA8DEDA.5050603@fptech.com>
References: <4BA8D704.1080803@mirrotek.com> <4BA8D9F3.6010602@fptech.com>
	<4BA8DA5A.9090105@mirrotek.com> <4BA8DB50.4090505@fptech.com>
	<4BA8DDF5.7060109@mirrotek.com> <4BA8DEDA.5050603@fptech.com>
Message-ID: <4BA8E004.2050005@mirrotek.com>



Bill Randall wrote:
>
>
> On 3/23/2010 11:27 AM, Boaz Bezborodko wrote:
>>
>>
>> Bill Randall wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/23/2010 11:12 AM, Boaz Bezborodko wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bill Randall wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/23/2010 10:58 AM, Boaz Bezborodko wrote:
>>>>>> I am starting business with a customer where I have to print out 
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> packing slip form my system.  They send me all the information in 
>>>>>> a file
>>>>>> which I import into my order system and I need to get some of the
>>>>>> information onto a form in the format that they use.  One of the 
>>>>>> fields
>>>>>> is a message to the recipient that takes a 148 character field and
>>>>>> requires that it be formatted into a 37-character by 4 line note 
>>>>>> on the
>>>>>> form with proper word-wrap.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was going to use a memo field so that I can use FP's 
>>>>>> embedding-object
>>>>>> functions to do the formatting.  But I
>>>>>> m having trouble getting the information into the memo field.  I am
>>>>>> using OPEN(), WRITELINE(), and CLOSE() to create a temporary file 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> then issue the command MEMO xx IMPORT "<filename>".  When I do 
>>>>>> this I
>>>>>> get a general protection fault.and it craps out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am I doing something wrong?  Should I be doing this a different way?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Can we see your actual syntax?  I just did a quick test and it 
>>>>> worked fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill
>>>>>
>>>> :ord(53) ne "":ar=OPEN("MemoTemp.txt","rwc0t"):
>>>> :ord(53) ne "":as=WRITELINE(ar,ord(53)):
>>>> :ord(53) ne "":zy=CLOSE(ar):
>>>> :ord(53) ne "":MEMO 201 import "MemoTemp.txt":
>>>>
>>>>
>>> It may have something to do with the location of the file.  Try this.
>>>
>>> :ord(53) ne "":ar=OPEN("MemoTemp.txt","rwc0t"):
>>> :ord(53) ne "":as=WRITELINE(ar,ord(53)):
>>> :ord(53) ne "":zy=CLOSE(ar):
>>> :ord(53) ne "":fn="FullPathTo\MemoTemp.txt"
>>> :ord(53) ne "":MEMO 201 import (fn):
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>
>> I tried that and I still get the same thing.
>>
>>
>
> Maybe it has something to do with the previous OPEN, WRITELINE, and 
> CLOSE on the same file.
> Manually create MemoTemp.txt and then comment out those lines and see 
> if it works.
>
> Bill
>

Same problem.

Boaz

From rkreiss at verizon.net  Tue Mar 23 08:39:15 2010
From: rkreiss at verizon.net (Rkreiss@verizon.net])
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 11:39:15 -0400
Subject: I need help formatting a text portion on a form
Message-ID: <0KZQ00L3TRHEBHE0@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net>



-----Original Message-----
From: Boaz Bezborodko <boaz at mirrotek.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 10:58 AM
To: filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
Subject: I need help formatting a text portion on a form

I am starting business with a customer where I have to print out their 
packing slip form my system.  They send me all the information in a file 
which I import into my order system and I need to get some of the 
information onto a form in the format that they use.  One of the fields 
is a message to the recipient that takes a 148 character field and 
requires that it be formatted into a 37-character by 4 line note on the 
form with proper word-wrap.

I was going to use a memo field so that I can use FP's embedding-object 
functions to do the formatting.  But I
m having trouble getting the information into the memo field.  I am 
using OPEN(), WRITELINE(), and CLOSE() to create a temporary file and 
then issue the command MEMO xx IMPORT "<filename>".  When I do this I 
get a general protection fault.and it craps out.

Am I doing something wrong?  Should I be doing this a different warp______________________________________
Filepro-list mailing listhtilepro-list

My suggestion would to use filePro's wordwrap function.  This will allow you to format your output as needed.

I am currently generating 5 or 6 form letters for a client this way.  

Richard Kreiss
GCCConsulting

From boaz at mirrotek.com  Tue Mar 23 08:43:19 2010
From: boaz at mirrotek.com (Boaz Bezborodko)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 11:43:19 -0400
Subject: I need help formatting a text portion on a form
In-Reply-To: <0KZQ00L3TRHEBHE0@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <0KZQ00L3TRHEBHE0@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <4BA8E197.2050806@mirrotek.com>



Rkreiss at verizon.net] wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Boaz Bezborodko <boaz at mirrotek.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 10:58 AM
> To: filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> Subject: I need help formatting a text portion on a form
>
> I am starting business with a customer where I have to print out their 
> packing slip form my system.  They send me all the information in a file 
> which I import into my order system and I need to get some of the 
> information onto a form in the format that they use.  One of the fields 
> is a message to the recipient that takes a 148 character field and 
> requires that it be formatted into a 37-character by 4 line note on the 
> form with proper word-wrap.
>
> I was going to use a memo field so that I can use FP's embedding-object 
> functions to do the formatting.  But I
> m having trouble getting the information into the memo field.  I am 
> using OPEN(), WRITELINE(), and CLOSE() to create a temporary file and 
> then issue the command MEMO xx IMPORT "<filename>".  When I do this I 
> get a general protection fault.and it craps out.
>
> Am I doing something wrong?  Should I be doing this a different warp______________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing listhtilepro-list
>
> My suggestion would to use filePro's wordwrap function.  This will allow you to format your output as needed.
>
> I am currently generating 5 or 6 form letters for a client this way.  
>
> Richard Kreiss
> GCCConsulting
>   

I hadn't known about this.  It looks like just what I'm looking for.

Thanks.



From boaz at mirrotek.com  Tue Mar 23 08:45:43 2010
From: boaz at mirrotek.com (Boaz Bezborodko)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 11:45:43 -0400
Subject: I need help formatting a text portion on a form
In-Reply-To: <4BA8E0CC.3040704@fptech.com>
References: <4BA8D704.1080803@mirrotek.com> <4BA8D9F3.6010602@fptech.com>
	<4BA8DA5A.9090105@mirrotek.com> <4BA8DB50.4090505@fptech.com>
	<4BA8DDF5.7060109@mirrotek.com> <4BA8DEDA.5050603@fptech.com>
	<4BA8E004.2050005@mirrotek.com> <4BA8E0CC.3040704@fptech.com>
Message-ID: <4BA8E227.7030709@mirrotek.com>



Bill Randall wrote:
>
>
> On 3/23/2010 11:36 AM, Boaz Bezborodko wrote:
>>
>>
>> Bill Randall wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/23/2010 11:27 AM, Boaz Bezborodko wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bill Randall wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/23/2010 11:12 AM, Boaz Bezborodko wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill Randall wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/23/2010 10:58 AM, Boaz Bezborodko wrote:
>>>>>>>> I am starting business with a customer where I have to print 
>>>>>>>> out their
>>>>>>>> packing slip form my system.  They send me all the information 
>>>>>>>> in a file
>>>>>>>> which I import into my order system and I need to get some of the
>>>>>>>> information onto a form in the format that they use.  One of 
>>>>>>>> the fields
>>>>>>>> is a message to the recipient that takes a 148 character field and
>>>>>>>> requires that it be formatted into a 37-character by 4 line 
>>>>>>>> note on the
>>>>>>>> form with proper word-wrap.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I was going to use a memo field so that I can use FP's 
>>>>>>>> embedding-object
>>>>>>>> functions to do the formatting.  But I
>>>>>>>> m having trouble getting the information into the memo field.  
>>>>>>>> I am
>>>>>>>> using OPEN(), WRITELINE(), and CLOSE() to create a temporary 
>>>>>>>> file and
>>>>>>>> then issue the command MEMO xx IMPORT "<filename>".  When I do 
>>>>>>>> this I
>>>>>>>> get a general protection fault.and it craps out.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Am I doing something wrong?  Should I be doing this a different 
>>>>>>>> way?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can we see your actual syntax?  I just did a quick test and it 
>>>>>>> worked fine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> :ord(53) ne "":ar=OPEN("MemoTemp.txt","rwc0t"):
>>>>>> :ord(53) ne "":as=WRITELINE(ar,ord(53)):
>>>>>> :ord(53) ne "":zy=CLOSE(ar):
>>>>>> :ord(53) ne "":MEMO 201 import "MemoTemp.txt":
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> It may have something to do with the location of the file.  Try this.
>>>>>
>>>>> :ord(53) ne "":ar=OPEN("MemoTemp.txt","rwc0t"):
>>>>> :ord(53) ne "":as=WRITELINE(ar,ord(53)):
>>>>> :ord(53) ne "":zy=CLOSE(ar):
>>>>> :ord(53) ne "":fn="FullPathTo\MemoTemp.txt"
>>>>> :ord(53) ne "":MEMO 201 import (fn):
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I tried that and I still get the same thing.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Maybe it has something to do with the previous OPEN, WRITELINE, and 
>>> CLOSE on the same file.
>>> Manually create MemoTemp.txt and then comment out those lines and 
>>> see if it works.
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>
>> Same problem.
>>
>> Boaz
>>
> I have tried various ways to break it here and I cannot.
> Can you send me a sample file that crashes?
>

I'm going to use WORDWRAP as per Richard's suggestion.  I don't have the 
time right now to try and figure out why I'm getting these errors and 
WORDWRAP will do the trick without all that mucking about in 
hyperspace--I mean--MEMO.

Boaz

From kenbrody at spamcop.net  Tue Mar 23 09:21:35 2010
From: kenbrody at spamcop.net (Kenneth Brody)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 12:21:35 -0400
Subject: I need help formatting a text portion on a form
In-Reply-To: <4BA8D704.1080803@mirrotek.com>
References: <4BA8D704.1080803@mirrotek.com>
Message-ID: <4BA8EA8F.6080701@spamcop.net>

On 3/23/2010 10:58 AM, Boaz Bezborodko wrote:
[...]
> requires that it be formatted into a 37-character by 4 line note on the
> form with proper word-wrap.
>
> I was going to use a memo field so that I can use FP's embedding-object
> functions to do the formatting.  But I
> m having trouble getting the information into the memo field.  I am
> using OPEN(), WRITELINE(), and CLOSE() to create a temporary file and
> then issue the command MEMO xx IMPORT "<filename>".  When I do this I
> get a general protection fault.and it craps out.
>
> Am I doing something wrong?  Should I be doing this a different way?

You're taking the long route.

Read up on the WORDWRAP() function.

-- 
Kenneth Brody

From appl at jpr.com  Tue Mar 23 12:00:51 2010
From: appl at jpr.com (Jean-Pierre A. Radley)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 15:00:51 -0400
Subject: OT: tolerance (was Re: Attachment test.)
In-Reply-To: <4BA8D304.8020904@spamcop.net>
References: <20100322193009.GA15886@ayn.mi.celestial.com>
	<A8D1E7DA-EABF-4570-A726-5C1C8401C162@celestial.com>
	<20100322180322.D5514@iglou.com> <4BA81A03.8020104@aljex.com>
	<20100322234603.A12255@iglou.com> <4BA8D304.8020904@spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <20100323190051.GB9596@jpradley.jpr.com>

Kenneth Brody propounded (on Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 10:41:08AM -0400):
| On 3/22/2010 11:46 PM, Fairlight wrote:
| [...]
| > The case for arguing against zero tolerance is amusing to me in general.
| 
| I'm not sure what that means.

Nor I

| > I find it amusing when people argue for tolerance in general,
| > really.  People -love- to spout off about tolerance this, tolerance
| > that...until they run into someone who's intolerant.  Then these
| > tolerance preaching folk show their true colours when they're
| > demonstrably entirely intolerant of the intolerant.  Which point
| > makes them instant hypocrites and tanks their credibility.  I find
| > myself incredibly suspicious of people that actively preach any kind
| > of tolerance, since most brands of tolerance are tantamount to,
| > "Tolerate everyone--as long as they're doing things in a way we find
| > acceptable."
|
| What's wrong with "you have a right to be
| stupid/ignorant/racist/whatever, and to think and say your
| stupid/ignorant/racist/whatever things, but I have a right to
| call you out on it, and point out in excruciating detail just how
| stupid/ignorant/racist/whatever you really are"?
|
| > I avoid the hypocrisy and just speak my mind on any given point.  I
| > can be flat-out -intolerant-, and while it might be unpopular and
| > unpolitic, I can't be called a hypocrite when I need to express my
| > displeasure with something.  Up-front intolerance is a far more
| > honest approach, IMNSHO.  It's also probably healthier, as you don't
| > have to hide anything or bottle things up--you speak your mind and
| > move on.
|
| I don't think you need to worry about anyone on this list calling you
| "politically correct".

When I was a lad, I would carry about in my wallet a tattered piece of
foolscap upon which I had copied:

        Toleration is not the opposite of intolerance but the counterfeit
	of it.  Both are despotisms: the one assumes to itself the right
	of withholding liberty of conscience, the other of granting it.
		-- Thomas Paine, The Rights of Man

-- 
JP

From fairlite at fairlite.com  Tue Mar 23 13:45:36 2010
From: fairlite at fairlite.com (Fairlight)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 16:45:36 -0400
Subject: OT: tolerance (was Re: Attachment test.)
In-Reply-To: <4BA8D304.8020904@spamcop.net>;
	from kenbrody@spamcop.net on Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 10:41:08AM -0400
References: <20100322193009.GA15886@ayn.mi.celestial.com>
	<A8D1E7DA-EABF-4570-A726-5C1C8401C162@celestial.com>
	<20100322180322.D5514@iglou.com> <4BA81A03.8020104@aljex.com>
	<20100322234603.A12255@iglou.com> <4BA8D304.8020904@spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <20100323164535.A15274@iglou.com>

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 10:41:08AM -0400, after drawing runes in goat's blood,
Kenneth Brody cast forth these immortal, mystical words:
> On 3/22/2010 11:46 PM, Fairlight wrote:
> [...]
> > The case for arguing against zero tolerance is amusing to me in general.
> 
> I'm not sure what that means.

There is (in non-totalitarian regimes) a general feeling that zero
tolerance for some things is a good thing--especially if it gets popular
support enough to become policy.  So theoretically, if you're against an
accepted ZT policy, you're often against the results of a democratically
driven outcome.  But the irony is, many of the democratically driven (or
at least popular opinion-driven) ideologies tend to be overboard and just
plain silly--they're either stating the obvious and trying to legislate
morality (doesn't work, shouldn't be tried), or they're so proposterously
without basis that they don't deserve the benefit of acknowledgement.
Either way, if you argue against it, you're usually stating the obvious
that the sheeple have managed to ignore anyway.  It should just go without
saying that ZT policies don't need to be argued against--they're just
usually wrong, period.

There's a difference worth noting between a ZT policy and a technical
limitation.  Take the anti-HTML email thing...  I'd be for that, obviously.
I'm not going to back away from that stance.  But that's not a ZT policy
as such.  That's imposing a technical functionality limitation.  The
difference between the two is that one is an attempt to herd cats by means
of coercion of various forms, and the other is a case where you simply
make it outright impossible for something to occur by technical means that
require no further human intervention--the system regulates itself without
the need for tolerance/intolerance.  When I was on a server committee
for my Call of Duty 4 clan, we tried both methods of enforcement.  The best
of the admins and I both agreed that the more you can make the technology
enforce things for you without human intervention, the better.  There's a
huge difference between -trying- to enforce a policy of any kind at a human
level, and "that's just the way things work".  It may seem like a fine hair
to split, since someone has to implement the technological barrier based on
a "policy" to begin with, but I really think that once you cross from human
enforcement to technological barrier, the nature shifts.  I've seen it
happen too many times to not think so.

As someone that's bucked a lot of systems, I just find it grimly amusing
when people want to argue against a -policy- (especially a ZT one, in
this PC day and age), as opposed to just dealing with something that's
technically implemented so that it's infeasible.  The former is a losing
battle 90%+ of the time.  Can't say I blame them for trying, and quite
often those speaking up have the higher moral ground--but it's usually a
losing cause, even though it also usually amounts to nothing more than
speaking truth and reason.  Saying you can argue against ZT policies is
therefore, to me, like saying you can argue that the sky isn't bright
magenta.  Of course it isn't...but that won't stop the sheeple from
claiming it is, if enough of them have banded together in stupidity to
issue an edict that it is and that you dare not think otherwise under some
penalty or another.  

Perhaps I meant more sardonically ironic than amusing.

> What's wrong with "you have a right to be stupid/ignorant/racist/whatever, 
> and to think and say your stupid/ignorant/racist/whatever things, but I have 
> a right to call you out on it, and point out in excruciating detail just how 
> stupid/ignorant/racist/whatever you really are"?

You had to ask... *laugh* Okay, but my way of thinking about it gets a
little involved.  You -did- ask... :)

This is a three-layer deep system, as I see it:

Group A - Exists and has some trait.
Group B - Exists and feels that Group A is wrong/off/inferior, etc.
Group C - Exists to defend not only Group A, but the very principle that
          any groups that would ordinarily be at Group A status should be
          left alone by any Group B type people.

Now, let's take the case I've most often seen exemplified--bigotry of
various forms.

You've got "target group" (race, orientation, religion, whatever kind of
group) in Group A's spot.  You've got those that dislike those people in
Group B.  You have a growing majority in Group C that preach tolerance for
all Group A type people.

Then you get a bigot (Group B) making a comment.  Group C immediately
jumps on them for being "wrong" (whether there's basis in fact or not),
simply for being intolerant.  What this attacking of the bigot does is
shift the attacked bigot and those attacking them each down a level.
The Group B bigot is suddenly in a Group A situation--their "thing" or
"whatever" is being bigoted.  Actually, they're there from the start--their
viewpoint is always their "thing"--but the act of being castigated by Group
C people effectively highlights this fact.  What it also does, however,
is turn Group C people into Group B people that are attacking Group A
people--just ones they don't have a problem with attacking.  At which point
we have "Bigots against Bigots", which is an ironically recursive loop.
Geoff Tate wrote a deliciously ironic line in one song on Queensryche's
"Operation: Mindcrime" that goes, "Erradicate the facists..."  The irony
never fails to hit me.  And this is essentially more of the same irony.

Essentially, "tolerance for all" would theoretically be fine, if it were
applied evenly across the board.  The problem is, in most cases I've seen
over the years, it isn't.  Group C would have you believe that they're
above it all, but they aren't.  They're no more leaving the Group B people
alone than they want Group B to leave Group A people alone.

In the end, everyone's a Group A of -some- sort.  The true nature of "live
and let live" would be to just leave everyone at Group A, and stop drawing
attention to -any- differentiating qualities--simply accept people as they
are.  Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to work that way, and people keep
reducing themselves and eroding their higher moral ground by engaging in
this sort of moral caste system war.

So to answer your question, there's nothing wrong with "letting" someone be
themselves, but what's wrong with being able to call someone on something
is the fact that it creates Group B, which necessitates (in theory) the
existence of Group C to "fight (or right) the wrongs" of the former.  The
real solution is to simply accept that everyone is a Group A at heart,
that not all Group A's are inherently good or bad, and to just leave well
enough alone.  It's not a case of right/wrong traits having different
levels of justification for being called out--in fact, the reality is
that no trait should be singled out, right or wrong.  The second you call
any Group A on something, whether it's a positive, negative, or neutral
quality, you create Groups B and C, and the vicious cycle commences.  So
the right to be "whatever" I'll agree with.  But the right to cite people
for being "whatever" essentially is a destructive process no matter what
the "whatever" is...and shouldn't be a right at all.  If someone calls
someone for being intolerant, they're really no better than the intolerant
person, and indeed descend to their level.  That's what's wrong with (what
I took away from) what you said, IMHO.  There shouldn't -be- a right
to denigrate anyone, technically--even for being wrong or stupid.  Not
ideally.  The second you grant the right to denigrate for any reason, you
lose control over its use/misuse/appropriation.

Live and let live might actually work fine...if everyone would just shut
up about it and -do- it.  The problem is, it has to work 100% across the
board, equally, or it degenerates into a huge morass of hypocrisy when the
extra two groups are invoked.  The whole system working smoothly relies
upon keeping everyone, right or wrong, at the only single layer that should
exist--Group A, everyone has some "thing/whatever".  Anything beyond that
single layer invokes a moral caste system destructive to peaceful harmony.

I think Bill Vermillion put it pretty eloquently one time we discussed
tolerance, and he said (I'm paraphrasing) that tolerance was essentially
useless rubbish, what it needs to come down to is simply mutual respect.
He had a valid point, IMHO.

> I don't think you need to worry about anyone on this list calling you 
> "politically correct".

If they do, they need a reality check.  :)

In an effort to condense the thread...

I saw JP's note as well.  JP, I actually like that quote the more I reread
it.  There is truth there.  Thanks for sharing, JP.  That ranks up there
with many of the gems Bill Campbell has pointed out over the years that
really make me think.

Which point puzzles me, though.  Most things like that go way back to
historical figures.  One wonders whatever happened to our civilisation.
It's not just the eloquence of speech that's diminished drastically over
time, but seemingly the clarity of thought and willingness to actually
think deeply have also declined.  Maybe I don't read enough non-fiction,
but you don't hear things like that even being quoted of people that were
born in the last 50-100 years very often, if at all (I can't think of a
single case).  Just reinforces my opinion of how stupid we've become as a
society.  There's a lot of depth gone missing.

mark->
-- 
Audio panton, cogito singularis,

From brian at aljex.com  Tue Mar 23 14:38:59 2010
From: brian at aljex.com (Brian K. White)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 17:38:59 -0400
Subject: OT: tolerance (was Re: Attachment test.)
In-Reply-To: <20100323164535.A15274@iglou.com>
References: <20100322193009.GA15886@ayn.mi.celestial.com>	<A8D1E7DA-EABF-4570-A726-5C1C8401C162@celestial.com>	<20100322180322.D5514@iglou.com>
	<4BA81A03.8020104@aljex.com>	<20100322234603.A12255@iglou.com>
	<4BA8D304.8020904@spamcop.net> <20100323164535.A15274@iglou.com>
Message-ID: <4BA934F3.6000400@aljex.com>

On 3/23/2010 4:45 PM, Fairlight wrote:

> I saw JP's note as well.  JP, I actually like that quote the more I reread
> it.  There is truth there.  Thanks for sharing, JP.  That ranks up there
> with many of the gems Bill Campbell has pointed out over the years that
> really make me think.
>
> Which point puzzles me, though.  Most things like that go way back to
> historical figures.  One wonders whatever happened to our civilisation.
> It's not just the eloquence of speech that's diminished drastically over
> time, but seemingly the clarity of thought and willingness to actually
> think deeply have also declined.  Maybe I don't read enough non-fiction,
> but you don't hear things like that even being quoted of people that were
> born in the last 50-100 years very often, if at all (I can't think of a
> single case).  Just reinforces my opinion of how stupid we've become as a
> society.  There's a lot of depth gone missing.
>
> mark->

This dates back to less than 24 hours ago.

"Much that is illegal is not wrong, and much that is wrong is legal." - 
Brian K. White 2010

Sure it's a simple truism to you and me but in 100 years it will be deep 
mystical insight to our idiot descendants.

-- 
bkw

From fairlite at fairlite.com  Tue Mar 23 15:49:31 2010
From: fairlite at fairlite.com (Fairlight)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 18:49:31 -0400
Subject: OT: tolerance (was Re: Attachment test.)
In-Reply-To: <4BA934F3.6000400@aljex.com>;
	from brian@aljex.com on Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 05:38:59PM -0400
References: <20100322193009.GA15886@ayn.mi.celestial.com>
	<A8D1E7DA-EABF-4570-A726-5C1C8401C162@celestial.com>
	<20100322180322.D5514@iglou.com> <4BA81A03.8020104@aljex.com>
	<20100322234603.A12255@iglou.com> <4BA8D304.8020904@spamcop.net>
	<20100323164535.A15274@iglou.com> <4BA934F3.6000400@aljex.com>
Message-ID: <20100323184931.B15274@iglou.com>

You'll never BELIEVE what Brian K. White said here...:
> 
> "Much that is illegal is not wrong, and much that is wrong is legal." - 
> Brian K. White 2010

That actually sounded familiar, but I couldn't find it anywhere else upon a
quick search.

Certainly accurate.

mark->
-- 
Audio panton, cogito singularis,

From bill at celestial.com  Tue Mar 23 22:55:03 2010
From: bill at celestial.com (Bill Campbell)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 22:55:03 -0700
Subject: OT: tolerance (was Re: Attachment test.)
In-Reply-To: <20100323184931.B15274@iglou.com>
References: <20100322193009.GA15886@ayn.mi.celestial.com>
	<A8D1E7DA-EABF-4570-A726-5C1C8401C162@celestial.com>
	<20100322180322.D5514@iglou.com> <4BA81A03.8020104@aljex.com>
	<20100322234603.A12255@iglou.com> <4BA8D304.8020904@spamcop.net>
	<20100323164535.A15274@iglou.com> <4BA934F3.6000400@aljex.com>
	<20100323184931.B15274@iglou.com>
Message-ID: <20100324055503.GA29845@ayn.mi.celestial.com>

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010, Fairlight wrote:
>You'll never BELIEVE what Brian K. White said here...:
>> 
>> "Much that is illegal is not wrong, and much that is wrong is legal." - 
>> Brian K. White 2010
>
>That actually sounded familiar, but I couldn't find it anywhere else upon a
>quick search.

Lysander Spooner pointed out in his essay ``Trial By Jury'' and
several other works that most of the so-called ``laws'' passed by
legislatures have no basis other than the biggest gang got together
to legalize their plunder and power.

"If taxation without consent is not robbery, then any band of robbers
have only to declare themselves a government, and all their robberies
are legalized." -- Lysander Spooner, Letter to Grover Cleveland 1886

Bill
-- 
INTERNET:   bill at celestial.com  Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC
URL: http://www.celestial.com/  PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way
Voice:          (206) 236-1676  Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820
Fax:            (206) 232-9186  Skype: jwccsllc (206) 855-5792

The meek shall inherit the Earth, the rest of us will go to the stars...
    -Dr. Isaac Asimov

From fairlite at fairlite.com  Tue Mar 23 23:11:03 2010
From: fairlite at fairlite.com (Fairlight)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 02:11:03 -0400
Subject: OT: tolerance (was Re: Attachment test.)
In-Reply-To: <20100324055503.GA29845@ayn.mi.celestial.com>;
	from bill@celestial.com on Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 10:55:03PM -0700
References: <20100322193009.GA15886@ayn.mi.celestial.com>
	<A8D1E7DA-EABF-4570-A726-5C1C8401C162@celestial.com>
	<20100322180322.D5514@iglou.com> <4BA81A03.8020104@aljex.com>
	<20100322234603.A12255@iglou.com> <4BA8D304.8020904@spamcop.net>
	<20100323164535.A15274@iglou.com> <4BA934F3.6000400@aljex.com>
	<20100323184931.B15274@iglou.com>
	<20100324055503.GA29845@ayn.mi.celestial.com>
Message-ID: <20100324021103.A8378@iglou.com>

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 10:55:03PM -0700, Bill Campbell may or may not have
proven themselves an utter git by pronouncing:
> 
> Lysander Spooner pointed out in his essay ``Trial By Jury'' and
> several other works that most of the so-called ``laws'' passed by
> legislatures have no basis other than the biggest gang got together
> to legalize their plunder and power.
> 
> "If taxation without consent is not robbery, then any band of robbers
> have only to declare themselves a government, and all their robberies
> are legalized." -- Lysander Spooner, Letter to Grover Cleveland 1886

It's not actually simple robbery, it's also blackmail and extortion,
considering the lengths to which they'll go to and threats they'll make in
order to collect if they aren't paid when they first demand the money.
Three crimes for the price of one.

It would be interesting to see someone build a case for not paying taxes
based on the premise of refusing to be a party to aiding and abetting
criminal activity.  I'm sure they'd never win, but it would be interesting.

And your quote reminds me of something James P. Hogan wrote in one story:
"The really big criminals never break laws, they make them."  ("The
Anguished Dawn")

You know, we're talking about this stuff, and it's always educational
listening to you folks.

What I find flat-out disturbing is that even the liberal mass media is
rattling the sabres and raising questions as to not if, but -how badly- the
government is broken in this country.  I mean, I'm no history buff, but
while things have been obviously deteriorating for over 30 years, I can't
personally remember a time in my life -after- the death of responsible and
-real- journalism when a media outlet as liberal as CNN.com has ever raised
questions as to the effectiveness of our government the way they've been
doing this year.  

Then again, we haven't had anything this close to the Great Depression in
my lifetime until recently.

mark->
-- 
Audio panton, cogito singularis,

From ken.m.cole at gmail.com  Wed Mar 24 01:11:51 2010
From: ken.m.cole at gmail.com (Ken Cole)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 18:11:51 +1000
Subject: OT: tolerance (was Re: Attachment test.)
In-Reply-To: <20100324021103.A8378@iglou.com>
References: <20100322193009.GA15886@ayn.mi.celestial.com>
	<20100322180322.D5514@iglou.com> <4BA81A03.8020104@aljex.com>
	<20100322234603.A12255@iglou.com> <4BA8D304.8020904@spamcop.net>
	<20100323164535.A15274@iglou.com> <4BA934F3.6000400@aljex.com>
	<20100323184931.B15274@iglou.com>
	<20100324055503.GA29845@ayn.mi.celestial.com>
	<20100324021103.A8378@iglou.com>
Message-ID: <94928a911003240111w3a41564bqc514da99a23bc2ee@mail.gmail.com>

> It would be interesting to see someone build a case for not paying taxes
> based on the premise of refusing to be a party to aiding and abetting
> criminal activity. ?I'm sure they'd never win, but it would be interesting.

This sounds in the same vain as the Australian movie with Billy
Connolly in it as "The Man Who Sued God" after an insurance company
refused to pay out on boat insurance because the boat was hit by
lightning, an act of god.  It is a very funny movie.

From john at valar.com  Wed Mar 24 05:03:10 2010
From: john at valar.com (John Esak)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 08:03:10 -0400
Subject: OT: tolerance (was Re: Attachment test.)
In-Reply-To: <94928a911003240111w3a41564bqc514da99a23bc2ee@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201003241203.o2OC3tZH021110@admin114.securesites.net>

I bought it from Amazon... It said it was Region 1, USA/North America...
When I got it no dice, it wouldn't play. It was really Region 4 so only down
unders can play it.  That really bugged me. I think I gave it to Tony Ryder.
All I could use it for was a drink coaster. And I really love Billy Connely.

John
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.com 
> [mailto:filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.co
m] On Behalf Of Ken Cole
> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 4:12 AM
> To: Fairlight
> Cc: filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> Subject: Re: OT: tolerance (was Re: Attachment test.)
> 
> > It would be interesting to see someone build a case for not 
> paying taxes
> > based on the premise of refusing to be a party to aiding 
> and abetting
> > criminal activity. ?I'm sure they'd never win, but it would 
> be interesting.
> 
> This sounds in the same vain as the Australian movie with Billy
> Connolly in it as "The Man Who Sued God" after an insurance company
> refused to pay out on boat insurance because the boat was hit by
> lightning, an act of god.  It is a very funny movie.
> _______________________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing list
> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
> 


From boaz at mirrotek.com  Wed Mar 24 07:22:17 2010
From: boaz at mirrotek.com (Boaz Bezborodko)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 10:22:17 -0400
Subject: Why is OPEN() cutting off this filename?
Message-ID: <4BAA2019.3040008@mirrotek.com>

Here is the code I am using:

147 ------- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
? If: ?
Then: af(15,*)="importerr-hsn.txt" ?
148 ------- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
? If: ?
Then: ag=OPEN(af,"rwc0t") ?

The resulting filename is coming out "importerr-hsn.t"

Can it only handle a filename up to 15 characters?

Boaz

From ScottWalker at RAMSystemsCorp.com  Wed Mar 24 07:29:54 2010
From: ScottWalker at RAMSystemsCorp.com (Scott Walker)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 10:29:54 -0400
Subject: Why is OPEN() cutting off this filename?
In-Reply-To: <4BAA2019.3040008@mirrotek.com>
References: <4BAA2019.3040008@mirrotek.com>
Message-ID: <001a01cacb5e$7a9e9ce0$6fdbd6a0$@com>

Are you not tell fp that the variable "af" is only 15 characters long?


Regards,

Scott


-----Original Message-----
From: filepro-list-bounces+scottwalker=ramsystemscorp.com at lists.celestial.com [mailto:filepro-list-bounces+scottwalker=ramsystemscorp.com at lists.celestial.com] On Behalf Of Boaz Bezborodko
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 10:22 AM
To: filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
Subject: Why is OPEN() cutting off this filename?

Here is the code I am using:

147 ------- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
? If: ?
Then: af(15,*)="importerr-hsn.txt" ?
148 ------- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
? If: ?
Then: ag=OPEN(af,"rwc0t") ?

The resulting filename is coming out "importerr-hsn.t"

Can it only handle a filename up to 15 characters?

Boaz
_______________________________________________
Filepro-list mailing list
Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list


From boaz at mirrotek.com  Wed Mar 24 07:35:56 2010
From: boaz at mirrotek.com (Boaz Bezborodko)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 10:35:56 -0400
Subject: Why is OPEN() cutting off this filename?
In-Reply-To: <7FD9E40A40547A4DA8FFFE464EE8177725C149D460@bmc0003.borisch.local>
References: <4BAA2019.3040008@mirrotek.com>
	<7FD9E40A40547A4DA8FFFE464EE8177725C149D460@bmc0003.borisch.local>
Message-ID: <4BAA234C.7010004@mirrotek.com>

Doug Luurs wrote:
>  
> You have af defined (Limited to) 15 characters  Bump it to 17 to get 
> the XT added.
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________
> Doug Luurs
> Senior Systems Analyst / Programmer
>
> BORISCH
> 4511 East Paris SE
> Grand Rapids, MI 49512-5314
> (616) 554-9820   x1143
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: filepro-list-bounces+doug.luurs=gmail.com at lists.celestial.com 
> [mailto:filepro-list-bounces+doug.luurs=gmail.com at lists.celestial.com] 
> On Behalf Of Boaz Bezborodko
> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 10:22 AM
> To: filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> Subject: Why is OPEN() cutting off this filename?
>
> Here is the code I am using:
>
> 147 ------- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> ? If: ?
> Then: af(15,*)="importerr-hsn.txt" ?
> 148 ------- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> ? If: ?
> Then: ag=OPEN(af,"rwc0t") ?
>
> The resulting filename is coming out "importerr-hsn.t"
>
> Can it only handle a filename up to 15 characters?
>
> Boaz
> _______________________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing list
> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
DOH!!!

Jeeez...Now I feel real foolish.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.celestial.com/pipermail/filepro-list/attachments/20100324/d977cbb2/attachment.html 

From boaz at mirrotek.com  Wed Mar 24 10:04:25 2010
From: boaz at mirrotek.com (Boaz Bezborodko)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 13:04:25 -0400
Subject: Large field not getting recorded
Message-ID: <4BAA4619.7040205@mirrotek.com>

A few days ago I wrote about having problems loading a file into MEMO.  
Instead of using MEMO I was told about WORDWRAP.  But I am now getting a 
different problem.

I changed the memo field from a 16,memo to a 148,*.  But when the record 
is being recorded 201 is getting cleared.  When I go through the table 
using DEBUG the program is properly loading 201, but when I look at it 
again afterwards, 201 is blank.

I thought that maybe this was a problem or bug due to switching the 
field from memo to *.  SO I tried creating a new field also with 148,* 
and loading both with the same data.  In both cases the fields are 
loaded with the data during an import, but are empty when I look at them 
later.

At no point do I do anything with these fields other than when I load 
them with the data.

What could be causing this?  It's really holding me up on my programming 
since my code is working all except for this.

Boaz

From kenbrody at spamcop.net  Wed Mar 24 11:03:31 2010
From: kenbrody at spamcop.net (Kenneth Brody)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 14:03:31 -0400
Subject: Large field not getting recorded
In-Reply-To: <4BAA4619.7040205@mirrotek.com>
References: <4BAA4619.7040205@mirrotek.com>
Message-ID: <4BAA53F3.1010803@spamcop.net>

On 3/24/2010 1:04 PM, Boaz Bezborodko wrote:
> A few days ago I wrote about having problems loading a file into MEMO.
> Instead of using MEMO I was told about WORDWRAP.  But I am now getting a
> different problem.
>
> I changed the memo field from a 16,memo to a 148,*.  But when the record
> is being recorded 201 is getting cleared.  When I go through the table
> using DEBUG the program is properly loading 201, but when I look at it
> again afterwards, 201 is blank.
>
> I thought that maybe this was a problem or bug due to switching the
> field from memo to *.  SO I tried creating a new field also with 148,*
> and loading both with the same data.  In both cases the fields are
> loaded with the data during an import, but are empty when I look at them
> later.
>
> At no point do I do anything with these fields other than when I load
> them with the data.
>
> What could be causing this?  It's really holding me up on my programming
> since my code is working all except for this.

Try a simple test ---

Make an input processing that does one thing -- assigns a value to those 
"long" fields.  Run dclerk with that input, and without any automatic 
processing.  Does it still fail?  If so, contact fpsupport.  If that works, 
then there's probably something in your processing that's blanking out those 
fields.

-- 
Kenneth Brody

From john at valar.com  Wed Mar 24 11:18:36 2010
From: john at valar.com (John Esak)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 14:18:36 -0400
Subject: Large field not getting recorded
In-Reply-To: <4BAA4619.7040205@mirrotek.com>
Message-ID: <201003241819.o2OIJEAL065392@admin114.securesites.net>

There used to be a situation where you would do:

Memo 33 edit

Put some stuff in the memo and then leave the memo field.  When looking
immediately in t                                          the memo was
empty.  Now, possibly something odd is happening with memo 33 import and
it's clearing its designated field?  The fix for the other was to do a
generic WRITE on the line immediately after the memo 33 edit so the current
record would be written.   This cured the problem, and you could now
immediately see the data just entered.  So, heck, why not try putting a
generic WRITE immediately after the memo ### import line. 

John


> -----Original Message-----
> From: filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.com 
> [mailto:filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.co
m] On Behalf Of Boaz Bezborodko
> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 1:04 PM
> To: filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> Subject: Large field not getting recorded
> 
> A few days ago I wrote about having problems loading a file 
> into MEMO.  
> Instead of using MEMO I was told about WORDWRAP.  But I am 
> now getting a 
> different problem.
> 
> I changed the memo field from a 16,memo to a 148,*.  But when 
> the record 
> is being recorded 201 is getting cleared.  When I go through 
> the table 
> using DEBUG the program is properly loading 201, but when I 
> look at it 
> again afterwards, 201 is blank.
> 
> I thought that maybe this was a problem or bug due to switching the 
> field from memo to *.  SO I tried creating a new field also 
> with 148,* 
> and loading both with the same data.  In both cases the fields are 
> loaded with the data during an import, but are empty when I 
> look at them 
> later.
> 
> At no point do I do anything with these fields other than when I load 
> them with the data.
> 
> What could be causing this?  It's really holding me up on my 
> programming 
> since my code is working all except for this.
> 
> Boaz
> _______________________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing list
> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
> 


From boaz at mirrotek.com  Wed Mar 24 11:27:51 2010
From: boaz at mirrotek.com (Boaz Bezborodko)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 14:27:51 -0400
Subject: Large field not getting recorded
In-Reply-To: <4BAA53F3.1010803@spamcop.net>
References: <4BAA4619.7040205@mirrotek.com> <4BAA53F3.1010803@spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <4BAA59A7.7090209@mirrotek.com>



Kenneth Brody wrote:
> On 3/24/2010 1:04 PM, Boaz Bezborodko wrote:
>> A few days ago I wrote about having problems loading a file into MEMO.
>> Instead of using MEMO I was told about WORDWRAP.  But I am now getting a
>> different problem.
>>
>> I changed the memo field from a 16,memo to a 148,*.  But when the record
>> is being recorded 201 is getting cleared.  When I go through the table
>> using DEBUG the program is properly loading 201, but when I look at it
>> again afterwards, 201 is blank.
>>
>> I thought that maybe this was a problem or bug due to switching the
>> field from memo to *.  SO I tried creating a new field also with 148,*
>> and loading both with the same data.  In both cases the fields are
>> loaded with the data during an import, but are empty when I look at them
>> later.
>>
>> At no point do I do anything with these fields other than when I load
>> them with the data.
>>
>> What could be causing this?  It's really holding me up on my programming
>> since my code is working all except for this.
>
> Try a simple test ---
>
> Make an input processing that does one thing -- assigns a value to 
> those "long" fields.  Run dclerk with that input, and without any 
> automatic processing.  Does it still fail?  If so, contact fpsupport.  
> If that works, then there's probably something in your processing 
> that's blanking out those fields.
>
Another DOH!!!   (That's two big ones for today.)

I was entering the data into the field I was standing on instead of into 
a lookup free record that it's supposed to go.

Jeez...I think I must be lacking sleep or maybe it's that my wife gave 
me a cup of coffee this morning, something I don't normally drink. 

To paraphrase Lloyd Bridges:
"It looks like I picked a bad day to START drinking coffee."


From fairlite at fairlite.com  Wed Mar 24 11:39:45 2010
From: fairlite at fairlite.com (Fairlight)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 14:39:45 -0400
Subject: Large field not getting recorded
In-Reply-To: <4BAA59A7.7090209@mirrotek.com>;
	from boaz@mirrotek.com on Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 02:27:51PM -0400
References: <4BAA4619.7040205@mirrotek.com> <4BAA53F3.1010803@spamcop.net>
	<4BAA59A7.7090209@mirrotek.com>
Message-ID: <20100324143945.B28935@iglou.com>

>From inside the gravity well of a singularity, Boaz Bezborodko shouted:
> 
> To paraphrase Lloyd Bridges:
> "It looks like I picked a bad day to START drinking coffee."

Try sniffing glue.  :)

mark->
-- 
Audio panton, cogito singularis,

From kenbrody at spamcop.net  Wed Mar 24 11:48:49 2010
From: kenbrody at spamcop.net (Kenneth Brody)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 14:48:49 -0400
Subject: Large field not getting recorded
In-Reply-To: <20100324143945.B28935@iglou.com>
References: <4BAA4619.7040205@mirrotek.com> <4BAA53F3.1010803@spamcop.net>
	<4BAA59A7.7090209@mirrotek.com> <20100324143945.B28935@iglou.com>
Message-ID: <4BAA5E91.9010905@spamcop.net>

On 3/24/2010 2:39 PM, Fairlight wrote:
>> From inside the gravity well of a singularity, Boaz Bezborodko shouted:
>>
>> To paraphrase Lloyd Bridges:
>> "It looks like I picked a bad day to START drinking coffee."
>
> Try sniffing glue.  :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyhaTQseKTQ

-- 
Kenneth Brody

From john at valar.com  Wed Mar 24 12:00:49 2010
From: john at valar.com (John Esak)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 15:00:49 -0400
Subject: Large field not getting recorded
In-Reply-To: <4BAA59CD.20904@mirrotek.com>
Message-ID: <201003241901.o2OJ1PeU081869@admin114.securesites.net>

You know, it's funny, I was going to suggest that you might be doing the
memo and filling into different files... was there a lookup involved... but
I just didn't and suggested the other.  I did immediately think the duh
thing though, because I have done the very same thing.
 
Don't feel bad, years ago... I remember calling in to Ken or somebody and
saying "Oh my God! filePro has just removed all the data in field 44 of my
most important file!!!! There isn't one bit of data on any record in field
44!!!". and of course followed with the obligatory, "I've done nothing to
this stuff for 10 years!!!"   It took me a few panicked minutes to figure
out what happened.
 
Hmmm, should I leave this for a brain teaser or just ell you how dumb I was.
I'm sure many have gotten it already. A clue... For some insane reason I had
put a password on the file a couple days earlier.. .it was our payroll
employee file.  The field that had been cleared was the Salary field.  Those
who haven't gotten it yet, probably have now. It turned out that I had
forgotten that when there is a file password, and you access that file with
*clerk, filePro will not show you the contents of any field on the IUA
Browse if you have not *already* seen that field on some screen.  This is
actually a great protection for just such things. You want someone to be
able to enter hours for employees but you don't want this person to see the
actual Salary or Hourly Wage fields.  So, you don't put them on any screen
they can see. Hence, when you display those fields on the browse, they are
completely empty.  If you don't think seeing an entire field completely
blank on every record will stop your heart... well, it will. :-)   I had
been checking this field in IUA instead of just doing a report or some
selset that would have brought me to particular records based on that
field... There were a hundred things I could have done... but all I did do
was keep looking at the empty browse and jumping to the erroneous conclusion
that *filePro* that )(*&^ program screwed my data and me. :-)  Funny, how
that is just about everyone's first reaction ... filePro did it!  :-)  
 
Happily, except for that horrible period just after 4.5 when DKNF beat us
all up for awhile, filePro is 99.9% usually not the cause of  bad data.  In
the past 15 years or so I have come to never think of filePro being the
culprit first... and that has been a good time saver. The problem is usually
pilot error on my part.
 
John
 
P.S. - Okay, so DKNF was not a short "period", but more like a half a decade
and 2 version levels... :-)  But still...  At least we have the fastest
indexes around. So the time squashing that group of bugs was finally well
worth it.
 

 
 
 
 
  _____  

From: Boaz Bezborodko [mailto:boaz at mirrotek.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 2:28 PM
To: john at valar.com
Subject: Re: Large field not getting recorded



I got the solution .  See my reply to Ken.  

I feel like an idiot.

John Esak wrote: 

There used to be a situation where you would do:



Memo 33 edit



Put some stuff in the memo and then leave the memo field.  When looking

immediately in t                                          the memo was

empty.  Now, possibly something odd is happening with memo 33 import and

it's clearing its designated field?  The fix for the other was to do a

generic WRITE on the line immediately after the memo 33 edit so the current

record would be written.   This cured the problem, and you could now

immediately see the data just entered.  So, heck, why not try putting a

generic WRITE immediately after the memo ### import line. 



John





  

-----Original Message-----

From: filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.com 

[mailto:filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.co

    

m] On Behalf Of Boaz Bezborodko

  

Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 1:04 PM

To: filepro-list at lists.celestial.com

Subject: Large field not getting recorded



A few days ago I wrote about having problems loading a file 

into MEMO.  

Instead of using MEMO I was told about WORDWRAP.  But I am 

now getting a 

different problem.



I changed the memo field from a 16,memo to a 148,*.  But when 

the record 

is being recorded 201 is getting cleared.  When I go through 

the table 

using DEBUG the program is properly loading 201, but when I 

look at it 

again afterwards, 201 is blank.



I thought that maybe this was a problem or bug due to switching the 

field from memo to *.  SO I tried creating a new field also 

with 148,* 

and loading both with the same data.  In both cases the fields are 

loaded with the data during an import, but are empty when I 

look at them 

later.



At no point do I do anything with these fields other than when I load 

them with the data.



What could be causing this?  It's really holding me up on my 

programming 

since my code is working all except for this.



Boaz

_______________________________________________

Filepro-list mailing list

Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com

http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list



    



  

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.celestial.com/pipermail/filepro-list/attachments/20100324/caf45a49/attachment.html 

From rkreiss at verizon.net  Wed Mar 24 14:22:46 2010
From: rkreiss at verizon.net (rkreiss)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 17:22:46 -0400
Subject: OT: tolerance (was Re: Attachment test.)
In-Reply-To: <20100323164535.A15274@iglou.com>
References: <20100322193009.GA15886@ayn.mi.celestial.com>
	<A8D1E7DA-EABF-4570-A726-5C1C8401C162@celestial.com>
	<20100322180322.D5514@iglou.com> <4BA81A03.8020104@aljex.com>
	<20100322234603.A12255@iglou.com> <4BA8D304.8020904@spamcop.net>
	<20100323164535.A15274@iglou.com>
Message-ID: <AE1ABC2371E14ECCACF3A9B30B395EA0@naomi>

To post:

Our world has been reduced to some extent to 30 second sound bites. With
focus groups, polling and other "modern techniques" most of what we hear has
been refined, test and retested and then homogenized some more before we
hear it.  

Only rarely do we hear things which have not had the content edited. Just
consider the offhand remarks which have been made by some politicians
recently.

I would agree that tolerance has to be 100% but that is never going to
happen.  The problem with your type C is that they will be "tolerant" of
everything to the point when they have lost their freedom as they tolerated
those who would take it away much too long.

I lump political correctness being foisted on us just as bad as McCarthyism
was in the 50's.  We are loosing our right to speak out.  Speech is being
censored by our government is a way that our founding fathers would cringe
at.

Enough said.  Time to get down off my soap box :)

Richard Kreiss

 

-----Original Message-----
From: filepro-list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com
[mailto:filepro-list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com] On
Behalf Of Fairlight
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 4:46 PM
To: filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
Subject: Re: OT: tolerance (was Re: Attachment test.)

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 10:41:08AM -0400, after drawing runes in goat's
blood, Kenneth Brody cast forth these immortal, mystical words:
> On 3/22/2010 11:46 PM, Fairlight wrote:
> [...]
> > The case for arguing against zero tolerance is amusing to me in general.
> 
> I'm not sure what that means.

There is (in non-totalitarian regimes) a general feeling that zero tolerance
for some things is a good thing--especially if it gets popular support
enough to become policy.  So theoretically, if you're against an accepted ZT
policy, you're often against the results of a democratically driven outcome.
But the irony is, many of the democratically driven (or at least popular
opinion-driven) ideologies tend to be overboard and just plain
silly--they're either stating the obvious and trying to legislate morality
(doesn't work, shouldn't be tried), or they're so proposterously without
basis that they don't deserve the benefit of acknowledgement.
Either way, if you argue against it, you're usually stating the obvious that
the sheeple have managed to ignore anyway.  It should just go without saying
that ZT policies don't need to be argued against--they're just usually
wrong, period.

There's a difference worth noting between a ZT policy and a technical
limitation.  Take the anti-HTML email thing...  I'd be for that, obviously.
I'm not going to back away from that stance.  But that's not a ZT policy as
such.  That's imposing a technical functionality limitation.  The difference
between the two is that one is an attempt to herd cats by means of coercion
of various forms, and the other is a case where you simply make it outright
impossible for something to occur by technical means that require no further
human intervention--the system regulates itself without the need for
tolerance/intolerance.  When I was on a server committee for my Call of Duty
4 clan, we tried both methods of enforcement.  The best of the admins and I
both agreed that the more you can make the technology enforce things for you
without human intervention, the better.  There's a huge difference between
-trying- to enforce a policy of any kind at a human level, and "that's just
the way things work".  It may seem like a fine hair to split, since someone
has to implement the technological barrier based on a "policy" to begin
with, but I really think that once you cross from human enforcement to
technological barrier, the nature shifts.  I've seen it happen too many
times to not think so.

As someone that's bucked a lot of systems, I just find it grimly amusing
when people want to argue against a -policy- (especially a ZT one, in this
PC day and age), as opposed to just dealing with something that's
technically implemented so that it's infeasible.  The former is a losing
battle 90%+ of the time.  Can't say I blame them for trying, and quite often
those speaking up have the higher moral ground--but it's usually a losing
cause, even though it also usually amounts to nothing more than speaking
truth and reason.  Saying you can argue against ZT policies is therefore, to
me, like saying you can argue that the sky isn't bright magenta.  Of course
it isn't...but that won't stop the sheeple from claiming it is, if enough of
them have banded together in stupidity to issue an edict that it is and that
you dare not think otherwise under some penalty or another.  

Perhaps I meant more sardonically ironic than amusing.

> What's wrong with "you have a right to be 
> stupid/ignorant/racist/whatever, and to think and say your 
> stupid/ignorant/racist/whatever things, but I have a right to call you 
> out on it, and point out in excruciating detail just how
stupid/ignorant/racist/whatever you really are"?

You had to ask... *laugh* Okay, but my way of thinking about it gets a
little involved.  You -did- ask... :)

This is a three-layer deep system, as I see it:

Group A - Exists and has some trait.
Group B - Exists and feels that Group A is wrong/off/inferior, etc.
Group C - Exists to defend not only Group A, but the very principle that
          any groups that would ordinarily be at Group A status should be
          left alone by any Group B type people.

Now, let's take the case I've most often seen exemplified--bigotry of
various forms.

You've got "target group" (race, orientation, religion, whatever kind of
group) in Group A's spot.  You've got those that dislike those people in
Group B.  You have a growing majority in Group C that preach tolerance for
all Group A type people.

Then you get a bigot (Group B) making a comment.  Group C immediately jumps
on them for being "wrong" (whether there's basis in fact or not), simply for
being intolerant.  What this attacking of the bigot does is shift the
attacked bigot and those attacking them each down a level.
The Group B bigot is suddenly in a Group A situation--their "thing" or
"whatever" is being bigoted.  Actually, they're there from the start--their
viewpoint is always their "thing"--but the act of being castigated by Group
C people effectively highlights this fact.  What it also does, however, is
turn Group C people into Group B people that are attacking Group A
people--just ones they don't have a problem with attacking.  At which point
we have "Bigots against Bigots", which is an ironically recursive loop.
Geoff Tate wrote a deliciously ironic line in one song on Queensryche's
"Operation: Mindcrime" that goes, "Erradicate the facists..."  The irony
never fails to hit me.  And this is essentially more of the same irony.

Essentially, "tolerance for all" would theoretically be fine, if it were
applied evenly across the board.  The problem is, in most cases I've seen
over the years, it isn't.  Group C would have you believe that they're above
it all, but they aren't.  They're no more leaving the Group B people alone
than they want Group B to leave Group A people alone.

In the end, everyone's a Group A of -some- sort.  The true nature of "live
and let live" would be to just leave everyone at Group A, and stop drawing
attention to -any- differentiating qualities--simply accept people as they
are.  Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to work that way, and people keep
reducing themselves and eroding their higher moral ground by engaging in
this sort of moral caste system war.

So to answer your question, there's nothing wrong with "letting" someone be
themselves, but what's wrong with being able to call someone on something is
the fact that it creates Group B, which necessitates (in theory) the
existence of Group C to "fight (or right) the wrongs" of the former.  The
real solution is to simply accept that everyone is a Group A at heart, that
not all Group A's are inherently good or bad, and to just leave well enough
alone.  It's not a case of right/wrong traits having different levels of
justification for being called out--in fact, the reality is that no trait
should be singled out, right or wrong.  The second you call any Group A on
something, whether it's a positive, negative, or neutral quality, you create
Groups B and C, and the vicious cycle commences.  So the right to be
"whatever" I'll agree with.  But the right to cite people for being
"whatever" essentially is a destructive process no matter what the
"whatever" is...and shouldn't be a right at all.  If someone calls someone
for being intolerant, they're really no better than the intolerant person,
and indeed descend to their level.  That's what's wrong with (what I took
away from) what you said, IMHO.  There shouldn't -be- a right to denigrate
anyone, technically--even for being wrong or stupid.  Not ideally.  The
second you grant the right to denigrate for any reason, you lose control
over its use/misuse/appropriation.

Live and let live might actually work fine...if everyone would just shut up
about it and -do- it.  The problem is, it has to work 100% across the board,
equally, or it degenerates into a huge morass of hypocrisy when the extra
two groups are invoked.  The whole system working smoothly relies upon
keeping everyone, right or wrong, at the only single layer that should
exist--Group A, everyone has some "thing/whatever".  Anything beyond that
single layer invokes a moral caste system destructive to peaceful harmony.

I think Bill Vermillion put it pretty eloquently one time we discussed
tolerance, and he said (I'm paraphrasing) that tolerance was essentially
useless rubbish, what it needs to come down to is simply mutual respect.
He had a valid point, IMHO.

> I don't think you need to worry about anyone on this list calling you 
> "politically correct".

If they do, they need a reality check.  :)

In an effort to condense the thread...

I saw JP's note as well.  JP, I actually like that quote the more I reread
it.  There is truth there.  Thanks for sharing, JP.  That ranks up there
with many of the gems Bill Campbell has pointed out over the years that
really make me think.

Which point puzzles me, though.  Most things like that go way back to
historical figures.  One wonders whatever happened to our civilisation.
It's not just the eloquence of speech that's diminished drastically over
time, but seemingly the clarity of thought and willingness to actually think
deeply have also declined.  Maybe I don't read enough non-fiction, but you
don't hear things like that even being quoted of people that were born in
the last 50-100 years very often, if at all (I can't think of a single
case).  Just reinforces my opinion of how stupid we've become as a society.
There's a lot of depth gone missing.

mark->
--
Audio panton, cogito singularis,
_______________________________________________
Filepro-list mailing list
Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list



From ScottWalker at RAMSystemsCorp.com  Thu Mar 25 14:37:26 2010
From: ScottWalker at RAMSystemsCorp.com (Scott Walker)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 17:37:26 -0400
Subject: Multiple Location Inventory Design
Message-ID: <00c001cacc63$5e14cad0$1a3e6070$@com>

I have an order processing system.  Currently it only handles inventory kept
in one location.  Now a customer wants to start keeping inventory at
multiple locations.  So the same part# could be in the inventory at the main
office and also at several branch offices.  I'm just starting to think of
the design of this.  Should I have a separate record in the inventory file
for each part#/location combination?  Should I use a qualified file for each
of the inventory of each location? (I don't use qualified files for anything
at the moment).   Of course, this design decision permeates itself
throughout the system (ie.  Order Entry, Shipping, Purchasing, etc).  Any
design ideas or thoughts would be appreciated.

 

Regards,

 

Scott

 

 

 

Scott Walker

RAM Systems Corp

(704) 896-6549

ScottWalker at RAMSystemCorp.com

 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.celestial.com/pipermail/filepro-list/attachments/20100325/09f20c57/attachment.html 

From fairlite at fairlite.com  Thu Mar 25 15:01:11 2010
From: fairlite at fairlite.com (Fairlight)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 18:01:11 -0400
Subject: Multiple Location Inventory Design
In-Reply-To: <00c001cacc63$5e14cad0$1a3e6070$@com>;
	from ScottWalker@RAMSystemsCorp.com on Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at
	05:37:26PM -0400
References: <00c001cacc63$5e14cad0$1a3e6070$@com>
Message-ID: <20100325180111.A28505@iglou.com>

When asked his whereabouts on Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 05:37:26PM -0400,
Scott Walker took the fifth, drank it, and then slurred:
> I have an order processing system.  Currently it only handles inventory kept
> in one location.  Now a customer wants to start keeping inventory at
> multiple locations.  So the same part# could be in the inventory at the main
> office and also at several branch offices.  I'm just starting to think of
> the design of this.  Should I have a separate record in the inventory file
> for each part#/location combination?  Should I use a qualified file for each
> of the inventory of each location? (I don't use qualified files for anything
> at the moment).   Of course, this design decision permeates itself
> throughout the system (ie.  Order Entry, Shipping, Purchasing, etc).  Any
> design ideas or thoughts would be appreciated.

I'd go with a location field, and just have part#/location specific
records.  Seems easiest to me.

mark->

From ScottWalker at RAMSystemsCorp.com  Thu Mar 25 13:07:41 2010
From: ScottWalker at RAMSystemsCorp.com (Scott Walker)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 16:07:41 -0400
Subject: Multiple Location Inventory Design
Message-ID: <006b01cacc56$d44d4d10$7ce7e730$@com>

I have an order processing system.  Currently it only handles inventory kept
in one location.  Now a customer wants to start keeping inventory at
multiple locations.  So the same part# could be in the inventory at the main
office and also at several branch offices.  I'm just starting to think of
the design of this.  Should I have a separate record in the inventory file
for each part#/location combination?  Should I use a qualified file for each
of the inventory of each location? (I don't use qualified files for anything
at the moment).   Of course, this design decision permeates itself
throughout the system (ie.  Order Entry, Shipping, Purchasing, etc).  Any
design ideas or thoughts would be appreciated.

 

Regards,

 

Scott

 

Scott Walker

RAM Systems Corp

(704) 896-6549

ScottWalker at RAMSystemCorp.com

 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.celestial.com/pipermail/filepro-list/attachments/20100325/06824745/attachment.html 

From fairlite at fairlite.com  Thu Mar 25 15:27:03 2010
From: fairlite at fairlite.com (Fairlight)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 18:27:03 -0400
Subject: Multiple Location Inventory Design
In-Reply-To: <20100325180111.A28505@iglou.com>;
	from fairlite@fairlite.com on Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 06:01:11PM
	-0400
References: <00c001cacc63$5e14cad0$1a3e6070$@com>
	<20100325180111.A28505@iglou.com>
Message-ID: <20100325182703.A2057@iglou.com>

This public service announcement was brought to you by Fairlight:
> When asked his whereabouts on Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 05:37:26PM -0400,
> Scott Walker took the fifth, drank it, and then slurred:
> > I have an order processing system.  Currently it only handles inventory kept
> > in one location.  Now a customer wants to start keeping inventory at
> > multiple locations.  So the same part# could be in the inventory at the main
> > office and also at several branch offices.  I'm just starting to think of
> > the design of this.  Should I have a separate record in the inventory file
> > for each part#/location combination?  Should I use a qualified file for each
> > of the inventory of each location? (I don't use qualified files for anything
> > at the moment).   Of course, this design decision permeates itself
> > throughout the system (ie.  Order Entry, Shipping, Purchasing, etc).  Any
> > design ideas or thoughts would be appreciated.
> 
> I'd go with a location field, and just have part#/location specific
> records.  Seems easiest to me.

Actually, I just thought about this from the perspective of, say, Best
Buy's web site, where you can check on store availability of and SKU.  When
you think about it in this particularly context, the ease shifts a bit.

Perhaps it would be better to maintain part# records with no availability
information directly in those records, and header/detail to a separate
"instock" table that is relational on part#, but -that- contains
part#/location/qty.  That'd make it easier to manipulate, perhaps.
I'd also actually tend to populate a record in that table for every
part#/location, and just set the quantity to 0 if it's not available there.
No adding/removing of records logic required, then.

Just some additional thoughts.

mark->
-- 
Audio panton, cogito singularis,

From craig at cwtsoftware.com  Thu Mar 25 16:32:44 2010
From: craig at cwtsoftware.com (Craig Tooker)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 19:32:44 -0400
Subject: Multiple Location Inventory Design
In-Reply-To: <00c001cacc63$5e14cad0$1a3e6070$@com>
References: <00c001cacc63$5e14cad0$1a3e6070$@com>
Message-ID: <4BABF29C.4050602@cwtsoftware.com>

On 3/25/10 17:37, Scott Walker wrote:
> I have an order processing system.  Currently it only handles inventory kept
> in one location.  Now a customer wants to start keeping inventory at
> multiple locations.  So the same part# could be in the inventory at the main
> office and also at several branch offices.  I'm just starting to think of
> the design of this.  Should I have a separate record in the inventory file
> for each part#/location combination?  Should I use a qualified file for each
> of the inventory of each location? (I don't use qualified files for anything
> at the moment).   Of course, this design decision permeates itself
> throughout the system (ie.  Order Entry, Shipping, Purchasing, etc).  Any
> design ideas or thoughts would be appreciated.
>    
You should of course, keep the SKU related information (everything but 
vendor, qtys and locations) in the inventory item master file.

A detail level file for vendors that supply the item should be kept to 
allow you to sell items from multiple vendors under one SKU (in the case 
of commodity items or where you have multiple vendors supplying the same 
item).  A vendor ID can then become part of an item available level.  
Each vendor will have their own costing and delivery and this will allow 
you keep them separate as layers of inventory (for purposes of costing 
and implementing FIFO or LIFO).

A detail level file that contains itemID, location, qty, vendor, costing 
and date should be kept - again for purposes of costing and FIFO/LIFO.  
Additionally you can then implement a stock locating system for 
efficient picking and correct allocation under the FIFO or LIFO logic.  
This allows you to direct material handlers for picking items for 
invoicing or stacking items from orders.

You could keep accumulators in the master record for total on-hand, 
available, allocated and on-order if you wish but it is not required 
(although it may make certain operations more efficient.

Efficiency is also helped if you make that item detail level layout the 
same for the PO detail (where you purchase the item) and also on invoice 
detail (where you sell the items).  That will make the management of the 
data straight forward and gives you the ability to make use of COPY (and 
its friends).

Craig Tooker




From wvaughan at steelerubber.com  Fri Mar 26 03:28:52 2010
From: wvaughan at steelerubber.com (Walter Vaughan)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 06:28:52 -0400
Subject: Multiple Location Inventory Design
In-Reply-To: <4BABF29C.4050602@cwtsoftware.com>
References: <00c001cacc63$5e14cad0$1a3e6070$@com>
	<4BABF29C.4050602@cwtsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <4BAC8C64.1010904@steelerubber.com>

Top posted reply

You also might think about not re-inventing the wheel. ERP's with any 
sort of WMS
functionality handle this and way more with years of debugging already done.
This will only get more complex over time. You may owe it to your 
customer to
investigate solutions where the customizations are at the business 
process level
and not re-invent standard supply chain methods/systems.


Craig Tooker wrote:

>On 3/25/10 17:37, Scott Walker wrote:
>  
>
>>I have an order processing system.  Currently it only handles inventory kept
>>in one location.  Now a customer wants to start keeping inventory at
>>multiple locations.  So the same part# could be in the inventory at the main
>>office and also at several branch offices.  I'm just starting to think of
>>the design of this.  Should I have a separate record in the inventory file
>>for each part#/location combination?  Should I use a qualified file for each
>>of the inventory of each location? (I don't use qualified files for anything
>>at the moment).   Of course, this design decision permeates itself
>>throughout the system (ie.  Order Entry, Shipping, Purchasing, etc).  Any
>>design ideas or thoughts would be appreciated.
>>   
>>    
>>
>You should of course, keep the SKU related information (everything but 
>vendor, qtys and locations) in the inventory item master file.
>
>A detail level file for vendors that supply the item should be kept to 
>allow you to sell items from multiple vendors under one SKU (in the case 
>of commodity items or where you have multiple vendors supplying the same 
>item).  A vendor ID can then become part of an item available level.  
>Each vendor will have their own costing and delivery and this will allow 
>you keep them separate as layers of inventory (for purposes of costing 
>and implementing FIFO or LIFO).
>
>A detail level file that contains itemID, location, qty, vendor, costing 
>and date should be kept - again for purposes of costing and FIFO/LIFO.  
>Additionally you can then implement a stock locating system for 
>efficient picking and correct allocation under the FIFO or LIFO logic.  
>This allows you to direct material handlers for picking items for 
>invoicing or stacking items from orders.
>
>You could keep accumulators in the master record for total on-hand, 
>available, allocated and on-order if you wish but it is not required 
>(although it may make certain operations more efficient.
>
>Efficiency is also helped if you make that item detail level layout the 
>same for the PO detail (where you purchase the item) and also on invoice 
>detail (where you sell the items).  That will make the management of the 
>data straight forward and gives you the ability to make use of COPY (and 
>its friends).
>
>Craig Tooker
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Filepro-list mailing list
>Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
>http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
>
>
>  
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.celestial.com/pipermail/filepro-list/attachments/20100326/39a5a8a3/attachment.html 

From nlp at vss3.com  Fri Mar 26 06:25:20 2010
From: nlp at vss3.com (Nancy Palmquist)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 09:25:20 -0400
Subject: Multiple Location Inventory Design
In-Reply-To: <00c001cacc63$5e14cad0$1a3e6070$@com>
References: <00c001cacc63$5e14cad0$1a3e6070$@com>
Message-ID: <4BACB5C0.4040304@vss3.com>

Scott,

I think I would suggest keeping the part master and the location data 
separate.  I set up an inventory system like this which required one 
part to be tracked by metal specifications, incoming and outgoing.  It 
is a similiar layout.  I kept a detail which would total each part by 
heat number (yours would be location), then detail records under that 
with the in and out for that location.  That way you have full audit of 
everything.


MASTER PART - PART/LOCATION TOTAL - DETAIL TRANSACTIONS for PART/LOCATION

You have great drilling capabilities with this model.  I would avoid 
qualifiers for live data, because reports need to stay in one 
qualifier.  I might use them for archive or history to keep the working 
files with live data.  Maybe it makes sense for an inventory to have an 
annual archive that would match with the IRS calendar for reporting.

Other people suggested this model, it worked well for me.  It is also 
scalable so you have not restricted how many locations.  Reports will be 
simplier to manage.

Nancy


On 3/25/2010 5:37 PM, Scott Walker wrote:
> I have an order processing system.  Currently it only handles inventory kept
> in one location.  Now a customer wants to start keeping inventory at
> multiple locations.  So the same part# could be in the inventory at the main
> office and also at several branch offices.  I'm just starting to think of
> the design of this.  Should I have a separate record in the inventory file
> for each part#/location combination?  Should I use a qualified file for each
> of the inventory of each location? (I don't use qualified files for anything
> at the moment).   Of course, this design decision permeates itself
> throughout the system (ie.  Order Entry, Shipping, Purchasing, etc).  Any
> design ideas or thoughts would be appreciated.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Scott
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Scott Walker
>
> RAM Systems Corp
>
> (704) 896-6549
>
> ScottWalker at RAMSystemCorp.com
>
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: http://mailman.celestial.com/pipermail/filepro-list/attachments/20100325/09f20c57/attachment.html
> _______________________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing list
> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
>
>    

-- 
Nancy Palmquist         MOS&  filePro Training Available
Virtual Software Systems    Web Based Training and Consulting
PHONE: (412) 835-9417           Web site:  http://www.vss3.com


From del at altsystem.com  Fri Mar 26 06:41:24 2010
From: del at altsystem.com (Del)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 09:41:24 -0400
Subject: Multiple Location Inventory Design
References: <006b01cacc56$d44d4d10$7ce7e730$@com>
Message-ID: <05a001caccea$077bd510$0c0201c9@Tiger>

Hi:

I implemented this years ago.
My system is multi-warehouse and multi-location within each warehouse.
Basically, I created a hierarchy of files:
    Level 1: Item number (or SKU)
        Level 2: Warehouse File 1
            Level 3: Loc 1
                         Loc 2
                         etc....
                     Warehouse 2
                        etc....
and so on.

There is more, related to types of inventory, sized items (track by sizes), 
lotted items, and serialized items.  However, the above is the basic 
structure.

This approach is very flexible and can be adapted to a wide variety of 
customers, from those with only one warehouse and one location per item to 
those with one warehouse and many locations or multiple warehouses with many 
locations.  We have done this over and over for both distributors and 
manufacturers.  We don't have much experience with retailers.

However, the layers of complexity this introduces took years to implement.
It will require you to rewrite, or at least modify, nearly all the code in 
your system to make it really usable in a real world situation.
It also requires a customer who understands the extra work needed to track 
inventory through multiple warehouses and locations (best accomplished via 
bar code scanning by the way).
Everything from purchasing to receiving, to inventory tracking and 
reporting, to order entry, to picking, and to shipping will be impacted in 
ways you can't even imagine when taking a quick initial look at it.

My point is, this is no quick add-on.  It requires a complete rewrite of 
your system.
However, it can be implemented in stages, if the customer is flexible enough 
to deal with that.
Your customer has to be very patient and prepared for a long haul if they 
decide to do this.

Del Neroni



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott Walker" <ScottWalker at RAMSystemsCorp.com>
To: <filepro-list at lists.celestial.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 4:07 PM
Subject: Multiple Location Inventory Design


>I have an order processing system.  Currently it only handles inventory 
>kept
> in one location.  Now a customer wants to start keeping inventory at
> multiple locations.  So the same part# could be in the inventory at the 
> main
> office and also at several branch offices.  I'm just starting to think of
> the design of this.  Should I have a separate record in the inventory file
> for each part#/location combination?  Should I use a qualified file for 
> each
> of the inventory of each location? (I don't use qualified files for 
> anything
> at the moment).   Of course, this design decision permeates itself
> throughout the system (ie.  Order Entry, Shipping, Purchasing, etc).  Any
> design ideas or thoughts would be appreciated.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Scott
>
>
>
> Scott Walker
>
> RAM Systems Corp
>
> (704) 896-6549
>
> ScottWalker at RAMSystemCorp.com
>
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: 
> http://mailman.celestial.com/pipermail/filepro-list/attachments/20100325/06824745/attachment.html
> _______________________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing list
> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
>
> 




From john at valar.com  Fri Mar 26 06:48:45 2010
From: john at valar.com (John Esak)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 09:48:45 -0400
Subject: Multiple Location Inventory Design
In-Reply-To: <4BAC8C64.1010904@steelerubber.com>
Message-ID: <201003261349.o2QDnMIG013532@admin114.securesites.net>


So Walter,

Who has written an ERPS system in filePro?  Or are you just not really
answering his question and telling him to dump his 20 year legacy system. If
so, isn't that getting a little old?  Do you think we could just all agree
to drop that kind of answer when someone specifically asks for help writing
in filePro?  There are just the few of us who have this need seemingly, if
you don't, why not traffic in the ERP chat room of your choice instead?

I mean if you need to hear it or anyone needs to hear it yet again. I'll
state it once and all for the record... "Yes, if you want to go with
mainstream software and tools, don't stay modifying your filePro system, it
won't be profitable or useful in the long run."  Does that satisfy you. I
think everyone here knows that, will agree to it and could we please just be
done with those kinds of threads?  We buy it, you're right, we're all wrong
for keeping up systems that have worked for two and a half decades.  We
understand that you and the world has moved on... It does not behoove this
technical forum that deals with help on code basically... To once again hear
how it all can be done so much better with the latest ERP bla, bla has to
offer.  C'mon, if you have a reason to watch and contribute to the forum,
great, but if it is your idea to suggest people move off of filePro to
answer their question about how one should approach something in filePro...
It is entirely counter productive.  If you agree with me, put up some file
layouts, put up code like the others have done.  If you disagree... Well, I
would appreciate it if you answer this privately and don't turn this into
what you apparently wanted it to become with your first answer.

In the past 6 months I have had 3 serious, extended, multi-day discussions
with 3 serious, long-time users of filePro systems who are going through the
agonizing decisions to move away from it into the whole new world that's out
there... Or continue to use it and merge whatever they can (as time, money
and energy permits) with newer solutions. The definitive answer has been in
all 3 discussions with all 3 companies, yes, if you want a far reaching,
complete solution that will bring your company far into the future, move
away from filePro and make the commitment. In all 3 cases, (and they all
frequent this forum) it was determined that making such a commitment would
mean over a year of conversion/transfer/ramp-up time and low to middle 6
figures to finance it. At this point, 1 of the 3 companies chose that route.
The other two are still considering their options with one leaning heavily
toward keeping filePro, and one leaning slightly away from filePro.  In all
3 cases, however, should one them ask a specific question up here on "the
filePro mailing list" about how to accomplish something in filePro, I and
several others happily, have had the courtesy and time to give good answers.
You on the other hand, didn't have the time, and overlooked the courtesy of
allowing those who still use and want to use filePro to do so. Do you really
not think that's a fair way to approach this mailing list?

And in case anyone thinks I took one side or the other in the move away from
filePro discussions, I did not.  However, up here in this place, I would
continue to strongly suggest that filePro can still handle just about any
situation typical companies might need. Can it do it with mouse
accessibility and RDBMS implementation, no.  Is this a requirement? For
some, yes, for others, no... And that is why I, at least still work on and
for this forum?  Why do you?  To constantly enter into philosophical or even
hard-nosed discussions of the benefits of leaving filePro?  If so, I submit
that if people want that discussion they should get it from paid consultants
off line... Not in a decidedly technical pretty much code-based forum. Or,
at least in OT: marked threads.

I re-read this note and I know you're going to read it as heavy handed, but
when will it ever be time for people to just deal with the questions as they
are put and not include in the answer or have the whole answer be the
suggestion to use a different tool than filePro. That is simply not what
it's all about here, and you, 
Walter, certainly know that.

John Esak


 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.com 
> [mailto:filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.co
m] On Behalf Of Walter Vaughan
> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 6:29 AM
> To: filePro
> Subject: Re: Multiple Location Inventory Design
> 
> Top posted reply
> 
> You also might think about not re-inventing the wheel. ERP's with any 
> sort of WMS
> functionality handle this and way more with years of 
> debugging already done.
> This will only get more complex over time. You may owe it to your 
> customer to
> investigate solutions where the customizations are at the business 
> process level
> and not re-invent standard supply chain methods/systems.
> 
> 
> Craig Tooker wrote:
> 
> >On 3/25/10 17:37, Scott Walker wrote:
> >  
> >
> >>I have an order processing system.  Currently it only 
> handles inventory kept
> >>in one location.  Now a customer wants to start keeping inventory at
> >>multiple locations.  So the same part# could be in the 
> inventory at the main
> >>office and also at several branch offices.  I'm just 
> starting to think of
> >>the design of this.  Should I have a separate record in the 
> inventory file
> >>for each part#/location combination?  Should I use a 
> qualified file for each
> >>of the inventory of each location? (I don't use qualified 
> files for anything
> >>at the moment).   Of course, this design decision permeates itself
> >>throughout the system (ie.  Order Entry, Shipping, 
> Purchasing, etc).  Any
> >>design ideas or thoughts would be appreciated.
> >>   
> >>    
> >>
> >You should of course, keep the SKU related information 
> (everything but 
> >vendor, qtys and locations) in the inventory item master file.
> >
> >A detail level file for vendors that supply the item should 
> be kept to 
> >allow you to sell items from multiple vendors under one SKU 
> (in the case 
> >of commodity items or where you have multiple vendors 
> supplying the same 
> >item).  A vendor ID can then become part of an item 
> available level.  
> >Each vendor will have their own costing and delivery and 
> this will allow 
> >you keep them separate as layers of inventory (for purposes 
> of costing 
> >and implementing FIFO or LIFO).
> >
> >A detail level file that contains itemID, location, qty, 
> vendor, costing 
> >and date should be kept - again for purposes of costing and 
> FIFO/LIFO.  
> >Additionally you can then implement a stock locating system for 
> >efficient picking and correct allocation under the FIFO or 
> LIFO logic.  
> >This allows you to direct material handlers for picking items for 
> >invoicing or stacking items from orders.
> >
> >You could keep accumulators in the master record for total on-hand, 
> >available, allocated and on-order if you wish but it is not required 
> >(although it may make certain operations more efficient.
> >
> >Efficiency is also helped if you make that item detail level 
> layout the 
> >same for the PO detail (where you purchase the item) and 
> also on invoice 
> >detail (where you sell the items).  That will make the 
> management of the 
> >data straight forward and gives you the ability to make use 
> of COPY (and 
> >its friends).
> >
> >Craig Tooker
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Filepro-list mailing list
> >Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> >http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: 
> http://mailman.celestial.com/pipermail/filepro-list/attachment
s/20100326/39a5a8a3/attachment.html 
> _______________________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing list
> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
> 


From dcoleman at dgcreact.com  Fri Mar 26 07:23:25 2010
From: dcoleman at dgcreact.com (Coleman)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 10:23:25 -0400
Subject: Multiple Location Inventory Design
Message-ID: <201003261023.AA139329676@mail.dgcreact.com>

Scott:

I agree with all the responses I have seen.  I have a nursing home billing and inventory control package and I keep an on-hand inventory field for the "central supply" in my master parts file and use the header-detail concept for all other locations.  I use one file for the other inventory locations
(i.e. 100, 200, 300 ...) and another file for the current inventory location of that particular item.  That file contains 3 fields, location code, item #, & on-hand value.  Then, on my main item view screen I show the on-hand value for central supply (the area that replenishes the other areas in the building) as a real variable (protected) and the other location values as dummy variables displayed on the screen.  I have the lookup to the other inventory location values defined as an array (currently 15 as I remember) but only show however many the client requests on their screen.  That way if they want to add a location or two, I only have to modify the screen by adding another dummy variable. 

I have a process table that transfers items from one location to another so the user has a history of all inventory activity. so if one location is out of an item and another is over-stocked, they transfer from one to another without affecting the replenishment value.

Don Coleman
Donald G. Coleman, Consultant
402 Andrew Circle
Indiana, PA 15701
(724) 349-6302
(412) 849-2589 (cell)

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Nancy Palmquist <nlp at vss3.com>
Date:  Fri, 26 Mar 2010 09:25:20 -0400

>Scott,
>
>I think I would suggest keeping the part master and the location data 
>separate.  I set up an inventory system like this which required one 
>part to be tracked by metal specifications, incoming and outgoing.  It 
>is a similiar layout.  I kept a detail which would total each part by 
>heat number (yours would be location), then detail records under that 
>with the in and out for that location.  That way you have full audit of 
>everything.
>
>
>MASTER PART - PART/LOCATION TOTAL - DETAIL TRANSACTIONS for PART/LOCATION
>
>You have great drilling capabilities with this model.  I would avoid 
>qualifiers for live data, because reports need to stay in one 
>qualifier.  I might use them for archive or history to keep the working 
>files with live data.  Maybe it makes sense for an inventory to have an 
>annual archive that would match with the IRS calendar for reporting.
>
>Other people suggested this model, it worked well for me.  It is also 
>scalable so you have not restricted how many locations.  Reports will be 
>simplier to manage.
>
>Nancy
>
>
>On 3/25/2010 5:37 PM, Scott Walker wrote:
>> I have an order processing system.  Currently it only handles inventory kept
>> in one location.  Now a customer wants to start keeping inventory at
>> multiple locations.  So the same part# could be in the inventory at the main
>> office and also at several branch offices.  I'm just starting to think of
>> the design of this.  Should I have a separate record in the inventory file
>> for each part#/location combination?  Should I use a qualified file for each
>> of the inventory of each location? (I don't use qualified files for anything
>> at the moment).   Of course, this design decision permeates itself
>> throughout the system (ie.  Order Entry, Shipping, Purchasing, etc).  Any
>> design ideas or thoughts would be appreciated.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> Scott
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Scott Walker
>>
>> RAM Systems Corp
>>
>> (704) 896-6549
>>
>> ScottWalker at RAMSystemCorp.com
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: http://mailman.celestial.com/pipermail/filepro-list/attachments/20100325/09f20c57/attachment.html
>> _______________________________________________
>> Filepro-list mailing list
>> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
>> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
>>
>>    
>
>-- 
>Nancy Palmquist         MOS&  filePro Training Available
>Virtual Software Systems    Web Based Training and Consulting
>PHONE: (412) 835-9417           Web site:  http://www.vss3.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>Filepro-list mailing list
>Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
>http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
>
 




________________________________________________________________
Sent via the WebMail system at mail.dgcreact.com


 
                   

From mschw at athenet.net  Fri Mar 26 07:28:43 2010
From: mschw at athenet.net (Mike Schwartz)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 09:28:43 -0500
Subject: Multiple Location Inventory Design
In-Reply-To: <4BABF29C.4050602@cwtsoftware.com>
References: <00c001cacc63$5e14cad0$1a3e6070$@com>
	<4BABF29C.4050602@cwtsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <006801caccf0$a43207c0$ec961740$@net>

> On 3/25/10 17:37, Scott Walker wrote:
> > I have an order processing system.  Currently it only handles
> inventory kept
> > in one location.  Now a customer wants to start keeping inventory at
> > multiple locations.  So the same part# could be in the inventory at
> the main
> > office and also at several branch offices.  I'm just starting to
> think of
> > the design of this.  Should I have a separate record in the inventory
> file
> > for each part#/location combination?  Should I use a qualified file
> for each
> > of the inventory of each location? (I don't use qualified files for
> anything
[Snip]
> 
> A detail level file that contains itemID, location, qty, vendor,
> costing
> and date should be kept - again for purposes of costing and FIFO/LIFO.
> Additionally you can then implement a stock locating system for
> efficient picking and correct allocation under the FIFO or LIFO logic.
> This allows you to direct material handlers for picking items for
> invoicing or stacking items from orders.
[Snip] 
> Craig Tooker

     Craig, Del Neroni and others have already given you some great advice.
The inventory control programs I've written are probably the most complex
filePro structures I've designed, although the "factored vendors" and area
calculation programs for the flooring industry that I wrote might possibly
be a little bit more complex, if I ever took the time to count up the files.


     It took a multiple filePro file approach to handle all of the inventory
programs I've written. To answer one part of your question that I haven't
seen anybody else tackle, "YES! Qualifier files can help a LOT."

     However, adding qualifiers to any level of your inventory files adds
only one more sub-level to your system, and as Del mentioned, you will
probably need several levels of header/detail files to complete your system.

     (It would be great if there were multiple levels of qualifier files to
make it easier to "drill down" into the databases more deeply.  There are
other database programs that do drill-downs nicely, but multiple browse
windows within filePro using the DROP command can accomplish the same
thing.) 

     For inventory systems, you really have to do a lot of questioning, head
scratching and note taking BEFORE you layout any files.  No two inventory
systems I've written are even close to one another.

     One thing that has always worked for me is a "teach me your job"
scenario.  I get right into the business and have a sales person train me to
be a salesman. I need to know exactly how they go about selling and
reordering items, and I don't mean just a quick 10-minute tour of the
warehouse.  If the boss asks why I need to "train" for a day or two, I say.
"I need to understand every detail of how inventory moves throughout the
place so that I could do any job that involves inventory, just short of
learning to run a forklift."  If necessary, I offer to do this day or two of
training for FREE.
.  

     In one instance I found out that it was really the special order items
that were losing all the money, so I concentrated on writing the special
order files so that special order items were handled as efficiently as
possible.  

     In another instance, I found that the inventory control problems were
not due to having multiple locations, but rather from selling both single
units and case lots.  I didn't have to change the file structure to fix this
problem, but I had to adjust the quantities fields to allow selling a half
or a twelfth of a case.

     So the key here is to do lots of thinking (and asking questions on the
list) BEFORE you write any code.
 
     One last tip:  You need to find that one key employee who is really
interested in what you are doing and is willing to help make suggestions and
test things with you.  I mention this because a lot of the employees still
see computers as job threats, and they will do anything they can to derail
the project.

Mike Schwartz  




         


From dmalen at malen.com  Fri Mar 26 07:48:12 2010
From: dmalen at malen.com (Dennis Malen)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 10:48:12 -0400
Subject: Multiple Location Inventory Design
References: <201003261349.o2QDnMIG013532@admin114.securesites.net>
Message-ID: <008401caccf3$5bd9a570$0cb21309@dennisoffice>

John,

I wish everyone felt the way you do. filePro has its place. I too considered 
leaving but have not - yet!As long as I can do some of the 21st century 
things that has to be done. For example, we need to be able to automate a 
process which logs on to a website (not ftp). Click on the correct parts of 
the site, perhaps answer some questions and either upload or download a 
file.

If we can't do these types of things easily we may have to leave filepro. I 
understand that this involves communication with the outside world which 
should not affect keeping filepro.

My other concern is as we get older that people like you will eventually 
lose interest in the filepro community and filepro will fade away. Then, 
instead of having built something of value over all these years, it will be 
lost and I have to reinvent the wheel with a new platform/package.

As you may remember, we had a one day meeting which the Hoover's were kind 
enough to host. I still inquire periodically what the status is of some of 
our suggested initiatives but that seems to have gone nowhere.

Please stay involved. Your involvement, and others, has always encouraged me 
to try new things with filepro as I am sure it has for others.

Dennis Malen
516.479.5912
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Esak" <john at valar.com>
To: "'filePro'" <filepro-list at lists.celestial.com>
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 9:48 AM
Subject: RE: Multiple Location Inventory Design


>
> So Walter,
>
> Who has written an ERPS system in filePro?  Or are you just not really
> answering his question and telling him to dump his 20 year legacy system. 
> If
> so, isn't that getting a little old?  Do you think we could just all agree
> to drop that kind of answer when someone specifically asks for help 
> writing
> in filePro?  There are just the few of us who have this need seemingly, if
> you don't, why not traffic in the ERP chat room of your choice instead?
>
> I mean if you need to hear it or anyone needs to hear it yet again. I'll
> state it once and all for the record... "Yes, if you want to go with
> mainstream software and tools, don't stay modifying your filePro system, 
> it
> won't be profitable or useful in the long run."  Does that satisfy you. I
> think everyone here knows that, will agree to it and could we please just 
> be
> done with those kinds of threads?  We buy it, you're right, we're all 
> wrong
> for keeping up systems that have worked for two and a half decades.  We
> understand that you and the world has moved on... It does not behoove this
> technical forum that deals with help on code basically... To once again 
> hear
> how it all can be done so much better with the latest ERP bla, bla has to
> offer.  C'mon, if you have a reason to watch and contribute to the forum,
> great, but if it is your idea to suggest people move off of filePro to
> answer their question about how one should approach something in 
> filePro...
> It is entirely counter productive.  If you agree with me, put up some file
> layouts, put up code like the others have done.  If you disagree... Well, 
> I
> would appreciate it if you answer this privately and don't turn this into
> what you apparently wanted it to become with your first answer.
>
> In the past 6 months I have had 3 serious, extended, multi-day discussions
> with 3 serious, long-time users of filePro systems who are going through 
> the
> agonizing decisions to move away from it into the whole new world that's 
> out
> there... Or continue to use it and merge whatever they can (as time, money
> and energy permits) with newer solutions. The definitive answer has been 
> in
> all 3 discussions with all 3 companies, yes, if you want a far reaching,
> complete solution that will bring your company far into the future, move
> away from filePro and make the commitment. In all 3 cases, (and they all
> frequent this forum) it was determined that making such a commitment would
> mean over a year of conversion/transfer/ramp-up time and low to middle 6
> figures to finance it. At this point, 1 of the 3 companies chose that 
> route.
> The other two are still considering their options with one leaning heavily
> toward keeping filePro, and one leaning slightly away from filePro.  In 
> all
> 3 cases, however, should one them ask a specific question up here on "the
> filePro mailing list" about how to accomplish something in filePro, I and
> several others happily, have had the courtesy and time to give good 
> answers.
> You on the other hand, didn't have the time, and overlooked the courtesy 
> of
> allowing those who still use and want to use filePro to do so. Do you 
> really
> not think that's a fair way to approach this mailing list?
>
> And in case anyone thinks I took one side or the other in the move away 
> from
> filePro discussions, I did not.  However, up here in this place, I would
> continue to strongly suggest that filePro can still handle just about any
> situation typical companies might need. Can it do it with mouse
> accessibility and RDBMS implementation, no.  Is this a requirement? For
> some, yes, for others, no... And that is why I, at least still work on and
> for this forum?  Why do you?  To constantly enter into philosophical or 
> even
> hard-nosed discussions of the benefits of leaving filePro?  If so, I 
> submit
> that if people want that discussion they should get it from paid 
> consultants
> off line... Not in a decidedly technical pretty much code-based forum. Or,
> at least in OT: marked threads.
>
> I re-read this note and I know you're going to read it as heavy handed, 
> but
> when will it ever be time for people to just deal with the questions as 
> they
> are put and not include in the answer or have the whole answer be the
> suggestion to use a different tool than filePro. That is simply not what
> it's all about here, and you,
> Walter, certainly know that.
>
> John Esak
>
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.com
>> [mailto:filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.co
> m] On Behalf Of Walter Vaughan
>> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 6:29 AM
>> To: filePro
>> Subject: Re: Multiple Location Inventory Design
>>
>> Top posted reply
>>
>> You also might think about not re-inventing the wheel. ERP's with any
>> sort of WMS
>> functionality handle this and way more with years of
>> debugging already done.
>> This will only get more complex over time. You may owe it to your
>> customer to
>> investigate solutions where the customizations are at the business
>> process level
>> and not re-invent standard supply chain methods/systems.
>>
>>
>> Craig Tooker wrote:
>>
>> >On 3/25/10 17:37, Scott Walker wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >>I have an order processing system.  Currently it only
>> handles inventory kept
>> >>in one location.  Now a customer wants to start keeping inventory at
>> >>multiple locations.  So the same part# could be in the
>> inventory at the main
>> >>office and also at several branch offices.  I'm just
>> starting to think of
>> >>the design of this.  Should I have a separate record in the
>> inventory file
>> >>for each part#/location combination?  Should I use a
>> qualified file for each
>> >>of the inventory of each location? (I don't use qualified
>> files for anything
>> >>at the moment).   Of course, this design decision permeates itself
>> >>throughout the system (ie.  Order Entry, Shipping,
>> Purchasing, etc).  Any
>> >>design ideas or thoughts would be appreciated.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >You should of course, keep the SKU related information
>> (everything but
>> >vendor, qtys and locations) in the inventory item master file.
>> >
>> >A detail level file for vendors that supply the item should
>> be kept to
>> >allow you to sell items from multiple vendors under one SKU
>> (in the case
>> >of commodity items or where you have multiple vendors
>> supplying the same
>> >item).  A vendor ID can then become part of an item
>> available level.
>> >Each vendor will have their own costing and delivery and
>> this will allow
>> >you keep them separate as layers of inventory (for purposes
>> of costing
>> >and implementing FIFO or LIFO).
>> >
>> >A detail level file that contains itemID, location, qty,
>> vendor, costing
>> >and date should be kept - again for purposes of costing and
>> FIFO/LIFO.
>> >Additionally you can then implement a stock locating system for
>> >efficient picking and correct allocation under the FIFO or
>> LIFO logic.
>> >This allows you to direct material handlers for picking items for
>> >invoicing or stacking items from orders.
>> >
>> >You could keep accumulators in the master record for total on-hand,
>> >available, allocated and on-order if you wish but it is not required
>> >(although it may make certain operations more efficient.
>> >
>> >Efficiency is also helped if you make that item detail level
>> layout the
>> >same for the PO detail (where you purchase the item) and
>> also on invoice
>> >detail (where you sell the items).  That will make the
>> management of the
>> >data straight forward and gives you the ability to make use
>> of COPY (and
>> >its friends).
>> >
>> >Craig Tooker
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >Filepro-list mailing list
>> >Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
>> >http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL:
>> http://mailman.celestial.com/pipermail/filepro-list/attachment
> s/20100326/39a5a8a3/attachment.html
>> _______________________________________________
>> Filepro-list mailing list
>> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
>> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing list
> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list 


From wvaughan at steelerubber.com  Fri Mar 26 07:54:40 2010
From: wvaughan at steelerubber.com (Walter Vaughan)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 10:54:40 -0400
Subject: OT: Re: Multiple Location Inventory Design
In-Reply-To: <201003261349.o2QDnMIG013532@admin114.securesites.net>
References: <201003261349.o2QDnMIG013532@admin114.securesites.net>
Message-ID: <4BACCAB0.4020409@steelerubber.com>

John Esak wrote:

>I re-read this note and I know you're going to read it as heavy handed, but
>when will it ever be time for people to just deal with the questions as they
>are put and not include in the answer or have the whole answer be the
>suggestion to use a different tool than filePro. That is simply not what
>it's all about here, and you, 
>Walter, certainly know that.
>  
>
Yes, I agree with you.

I started as well typing a response that had the whole-tree structure
and then I realized that the right long term solution
for the client may not be the one that benefits the filepro developer.
That's all.

I guess in all cases that's a default point, except in this
case with the required changes to sales orders, gl accounts, and the like
that probably will be step 2 or 3, I thought it might be helpful to stand up
and make sure the boat is actually headed in the right direction.

Scolding duly noted.

Your friend in filePro,
Walter

From ScottWalker at RAMSystemsCorp.com  Fri Mar 26 08:28:52 2010
From: ScottWalker at RAMSystemsCorp.com (Scott Walker)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 11:28:52 -0400
Subject: Multiple Location Inventory Design
In-Reply-To: <4BACCAB0.4020409@steelerubber.com>
References: <201003261349.o2QDnMIG013532@admin114.securesites.net>
	<4BACCAB0.4020409@steelerubber.com>
Message-ID: <002901caccf9$0b3d2500$21b76f00$@com>

Thanks to everyone who offered their thoughts on my Multiple Location
Inventory Design question.

I must say, you can't beat the input you get from folks who have evolved
their systems for years to deal with this issue.

Walter's point about not reinventing the wheel is always a part of the
calculation I make whenever a customer asks me for a modification.  How much
effort (time & money) is it worth to invest in an older product.  If the
effort is small/medium it almost always makes sense.  They get a good ROI
even if they only use it for a couple of more years.  If the effort is going
to be very large then you really have to make sure it makes sense.  I think
you present it to the customer, give them their options (including going
through the incredibly expensive & time consuming option of searching for
and implementing alternative solutions) and then you let them decide what is
the best course of action for them.

What scares me about this modification is not what is needed in the
Inventory module per se, but how the changes there affect Order Entry,
Shipping, Purchasing,  Receiving, various reports, etc.  I think the
customer who is asking for this modification has not really thought through
all the implications of this.

Thanks again for all the great input.

Regards,

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From:
filepro-list-bounces+scottwalker=ramsystemscorp.com at lists.celestial.com
[mailto:filepro-list-bounces+scottwalker=ramsystemscorp.com at lists.celestial.
com] On Behalf Of Walter Vaughan
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 10:55 AM
To: filePro
Subject: OT: Re: Multiple Location Inventory Design

John Esak wrote:

>I re-read this note and I know you're going to read it as heavy handed, but
>when will it ever be time for people to just deal with the questions as
they
>are put and not include in the answer or have the whole answer be the
>suggestion to use a different tool than filePro. That is simply not what
>it's all about here, and you, 
>Walter, certainly know that.
>  
>
Yes, I agree with you.

I started as well typing a response that had the whole-tree structure
and then I realized that the right long term solution
for the client may not be the one that benefits the filepro developer.
That's all.

I guess in all cases that's a default point, except in this
case with the required changes to sales orders, gl accounts, and the like
that probably will be step 2 or 3, I thought it might be helpful to stand up
and make sure the boat is actually headed in the right direction.

Scolding duly noted.

Your friend in filePro,
Walter
_______________________________________________
Filepro-list mailing list
Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list


From john at valar.com  Fri Mar 26 08:32:23 2010
From: john at valar.com (John Esak)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 11:32:23 -0400
Subject: Multiple Location Inventory Design
In-Reply-To: <008401caccf3$5bd9a570$0cb21309@dennisoffice>
Message-ID: <201003261533.o2QFX1Ks054607@admin114.securesites.net>

I'm not going anywhere when it comes to filePro... For better or worse I
wrapped my life around it. Sounds like a marriage, huh?  Well, wait a
minute... I am divorced...   Oh, but that was only a woman. :-)    (Karen
would kill me if she saw this.  :-)

John
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dennis Malen [mailto:dmalen at malen.com] 
> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 10:48 AM
> To: john at valar.com; filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> Subject: Re: Multiple Location Inventory Design
> 
> John,
> 
> I wish everyone felt the way you do. filePro has its place. I 
> too considered 
> leaving but have not - yet!As long as I can do some of the 
> 21st century 
> things that has to be done. For example, we need to be able 
> to automate a 
> process which logs on to a website (not ftp). Click on the 
> correct parts of 
> the site, perhaps answer some questions and either upload or 
> download a 
> file.
> 
> If we can't do these types of things easily we may have to 
> leave filepro. I 
> understand that this involves communication with the outside 
> world which 
> should not affect keeping filepro.
> 
> My other concern is as we get older that people like you will 
> eventually 
> lose interest in the filepro community and filepro will fade 
> away. Then, 
> instead of having built something of value over all these 
> years, it will be 
> lost and I have to reinvent the wheel with a new platform/package.
> 
> As you may remember, we had a one day meeting which the 
> Hoover's were kind 
> enough to host. I still inquire periodically what the status 
> is of some of 
> our suggested initiatives but that seems to have gone nowhere.
> 
> Please stay involved. Your involvement, and others, has 
> always encouraged me 
> to try new things with filepro as I am sure it has for others.
> 
> Dennis Malen
> 516.479.5912
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "John Esak" <john at valar.com>
> To: "'filePro'" <filepro-list at lists.celestial.com>
> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 9:48 AM
> Subject: RE: Multiple Location Inventory Design
> 
> 
> >
> > So Walter,
> >
> > Who has written an ERPS system in filePro?  Or are you just 
> not really
> > answering his question and telling him to dump his 20 year 
> legacy system. 
> > If
> > so, isn't that getting a little old?  Do you think we could 
> just all agree
> > to drop that kind of answer when someone specifically asks for help 
> > writing
> > in filePro?  There are just the few of us who have this 
> need seemingly, if
> > you don't, why not traffic in the ERP chat room of your 
> choice instead?
> >
> > I mean if you need to hear it or anyone needs to hear it 
> yet again. I'll
> > state it once and all for the record... "Yes, if you want to go with
> > mainstream software and tools, don't stay modifying your 
> filePro system, 
> > it
> > won't be profitable or useful in the long run."  Does that 
> satisfy you. I
> > think everyone here knows that, will agree to it and could 
> we please just 
> > be
> > done with those kinds of threads?  We buy it, you're right, 
> we're all 
> > wrong
> > for keeping up systems that have worked for two and a half 
> decades.  We
> > understand that you and the world has moved on... It does 
> not behoove this
> > technical forum that deals with help on code basically... 
> To once again 
> > hear
> > how it all can be done so much better with the latest ERP 
> bla, bla has to
> > offer.  C'mon, if you have a reason to watch and contribute 
> to the forum,
> > great, but if it is your idea to suggest people move off of 
> filePro to
> > answer their question about how one should approach something in 
> > filePro...
> > It is entirely counter productive.  If you agree with me, 
> put up some file
> > layouts, put up code like the others have done.  If you 
> disagree... Well, 
> > I
> > would appreciate it if you answer this privately and don't 
> turn this into
> > what you apparently wanted it to become with your first answer.
> >
> > In the past 6 months I have had 3 serious, extended, 
> multi-day discussions
> > with 3 serious, long-time users of filePro systems who are 
> going through 
> > the
> > agonizing decisions to move away from it into the whole new 
> world that's 
> > out
> > there... Or continue to use it and merge whatever they can 
> (as time, money
> > and energy permits) with newer solutions. The definitive 
> answer has been 
> > in
> > all 3 discussions with all 3 companies, yes, if you want a 
> far reaching,
> > complete solution that will bring your company far into the 
> future, move
> > away from filePro and make the commitment. In all 3 cases, 
> (and they all
> > frequent this forum) it was determined that making such a 
> commitment would
> > mean over a year of conversion/transfer/ramp-up time and 
> low to middle 6
> > figures to finance it. At this point, 1 of the 3 companies 
> chose that 
> > route.
> > The other two are still considering their options with one 
> leaning heavily
> > toward keeping filePro, and one leaning slightly away from 
> filePro.  In 
> > all
> > 3 cases, however, should one them ask a specific question 
> up here on "the
> > filePro mailing list" about how to accomplish something in 
> filePro, I and
> > several others happily, have had the courtesy and time to give good 
> > answers.
> > You on the other hand, didn't have the time, and overlooked 
> the courtesy 
> > of
> > allowing those who still use and want to use filePro to do 
> so. Do you 
> > really
> > not think that's a fair way to approach this mailing list?
> >
> > And in case anyone thinks I took one side or the other in 
> the move away 
> > from
> > filePro discussions, I did not.  However, up here in this 
> place, I would
> > continue to strongly suggest that filePro can still handle 
> just about any
> > situation typical companies might need. Can it do it with mouse
> > accessibility and RDBMS implementation, no.  Is this a 
> requirement? For
> > some, yes, for others, no... And that is why I, at least 
> still work on and
> > for this forum?  Why do you?  To constantly enter into 
> philosophical or 
> > even
> > hard-nosed discussions of the benefits of leaving filePro?  
> If so, I 
> > submit
> > that if people want that discussion they should get it from paid 
> > consultants
> > off line... Not in a decidedly technical pretty much 
> code-based forum. Or,
> > at least in OT: marked threads.
> >
> > I re-read this note and I know you're going to read it as 
> heavy handed, 
> > but
> > when will it ever be time for people to just deal with the 
> questions as 
> > they
> > are put and not include in the answer or have the whole 
> answer be the
> > suggestion to use a different tool than filePro. That is 
> simply not what
> > it's all about here, and you,
> > Walter, certainly know that.
> >
> > John Esak
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.com
> >> [mailto:filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.co
> > m] On Behalf Of Walter Vaughan
> >> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 6:29 AM
> >> To: filePro
> >> Subject: Re: Multiple Location Inventory Design
> >>
> >> Top posted reply
> >>
> >> You also might think about not re-inventing the wheel. 
> ERP's with any
> >> sort of WMS
> >> functionality handle this and way more with years of
> >> debugging already done.
> >> This will only get more complex over time. You may owe it to your
> >> customer to
> >> investigate solutions where the customizations are at the business
> >> process level
> >> and not re-invent standard supply chain methods/systems.
> >>
> >>
> >> Craig Tooker wrote:
> >>
> >> >On 3/25/10 17:37, Scott Walker wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>I have an order processing system.  Currently it only
> >> handles inventory kept
> >> >>in one location.  Now a customer wants to start keeping 
> inventory at
> >> >>multiple locations.  So the same part# could be in the
> >> inventory at the main
> >> >>office and also at several branch offices.  I'm just
> >> starting to think of
> >> >>the design of this.  Should I have a separate record in the
> >> inventory file
> >> >>for each part#/location combination?  Should I use a
> >> qualified file for each
> >> >>of the inventory of each location? (I don't use qualified
> >> files for anything
> >> >>at the moment).   Of course, this design decision 
> permeates itself
> >> >>throughout the system (ie.  Order Entry, Shipping,
> >> Purchasing, etc).  Any
> >> >>design ideas or thoughts would be appreciated.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >You should of course, keep the SKU related information
> >> (everything but
> >> >vendor, qtys and locations) in the inventory item master file.
> >> >
> >> >A detail level file for vendors that supply the item should
> >> be kept to
> >> >allow you to sell items from multiple vendors under one SKU
> >> (in the case
> >> >of commodity items or where you have multiple vendors
> >> supplying the same
> >> >item).  A vendor ID can then become part of an item
> >> available level.
> >> >Each vendor will have their own costing and delivery and
> >> this will allow
> >> >you keep them separate as layers of inventory (for purposes
> >> of costing
> >> >and implementing FIFO or LIFO).
> >> >
> >> >A detail level file that contains itemID, location, qty,
> >> vendor, costing
> >> >and date should be kept - again for purposes of costing and
> >> FIFO/LIFO.
> >> >Additionally you can then implement a stock locating system for
> >> >efficient picking and correct allocation under the FIFO or
> >> LIFO logic.
> >> >This allows you to direct material handlers for picking items for
> >> >invoicing or stacking items from orders.
> >> >
> >> >You could keep accumulators in the master record for 
> total on-hand,
> >> >available, allocated and on-order if you wish but it is 
> not required
> >> >(although it may make certain operations more efficient.
> >> >
> >> >Efficiency is also helped if you make that item detail level
> >> layout the
> >> >same for the PO detail (where you purchase the item) and
> >> also on invoice
> >> >detail (where you sell the items).  That will make the
> >> management of the
> >> >data straight forward and gives you the ability to make use
> >> of COPY (and
> >> >its friends).
> >> >
> >> >Craig Tooker
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >_______________________________________________
> >> >Filepro-list mailing list
> >> >Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> >> >http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >> URL:
> >> http://mailman.celestial.com/pipermail/filepro-list/attachment
> > s/20100326/39a5a8a3/attachment.html
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Filepro-list mailing list
> >> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> >> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Filepro-list mailing list
> > Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> > http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list 
> 


From john at valar.com  Fri Mar 26 08:34:22 2010
From: john at valar.com (John Esak)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 11:34:22 -0400
Subject: Multiple Location Inventory Design
In-Reply-To: <4BACCAB0.4020409@steelerubber.com>
Message-ID: <201003261534.o2QFYxdm055327@admin114.securesites.net>

Scolding, huh?  I must sound like Bill O'Reilly...   Eek.

John 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.com 
> [mailto:filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.co
m] On Behalf Of Walter Vaughan
> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 10:55 AM
> To: filePro
> Subject: OT: Re: Multiple Location Inventory Design
> 
> John Esak wrote:
> 
> >I re-read this note and I know you're going to read it as 
> heavy handed, but
> >when will it ever be time for people to just deal with the 
> questions as they
> >are put and not include in the answer or have the whole answer be the
> >suggestion to use a different tool than filePro. That is 
> simply not what
> >it's all about here, and you, 
> >Walter, certainly know that.
> >  
> >
> Yes, I agree with you.
> 
> I started as well typing a response that had the whole-tree structure
> and then I realized that the right long term solution
> for the client may not be the one that benefits the filepro developer.
> That's all.
> 
> I guess in all cases that's a default point, except in this
> case with the required changes to sales orders, gl accounts, 
> and the like
> that probably will be step 2 or 3, I thought it might be 
> helpful to stand up
> and make sure the boat is actually headed in the right direction.
> 
> Scolding duly noted.
> 
> Your friend in filePro,
> Walter
> _______________________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing list
> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
> 


From bill at celestial.com  Fri Mar 26 09:13:25 2010
From: bill at celestial.com (Bill Campbell)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 09:13:25 -0700
Subject: Multiple Location Inventory Design
In-Reply-To: <201003261533.o2QFX1Ks054607@admin114.securesites.net>
References: <008401caccf3$5bd9a570$0cb21309@dennisoffice>
	<201003261533.o2QFX1Ks054607@admin114.securesites.net>
Message-ID: <20100326161325.GA9138@ayn.mi.celestial.com>

On Fri, Mar 26, 2010, John Esak wrote:
>I'm not going anywhere when it comes to filePro... For better or worse I
>wrapped my life around it. Sounds like a marriage, huh?  Well, wait a
>minute... I am divorced...   Oh, but that was only a woman. :-)    (Karen
>would kill me if she saw this.  :-)

Like this old Dilbert strip?

Bill
-- 
INTERNET:   bill at celestial.com  Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC
URL: http://www.celestial.com/  PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way
Voice:          (206) 236-1676  Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820
Fax:            (206) 232-9186  Skype: jwccsllc (206) 855-5792

Whoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of
all industry and commerce.  -- James A. Garfield
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: 950712.gif
Type: image/gif
Size: 13951 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mailman.celestial.com/pipermail/filepro-list/attachments/20100326/273d65ae/attachment.gif 

From rkreiss at verizon.net  Fri Mar 26 09:58:22 2010
From: rkreiss at verizon.net (Richard Kreiss)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 12:58:22 -0400
Subject: Multiple Location Inventory Design
In-Reply-To: <201003261534.o2QFYxdm055327@admin114.securesites.net>
References: <4BACCAB0.4020409@steelerubber.com>
	<201003261534.o2QFYxdm055327@admin114.securesites.net>
Message-ID: <006801cacd05$8bc40390$a34c0ab0$@net>

I sent Scott some suggestion off list as I have been taking care of my wife
who just came home from the hospital after some surgery.  He really needs to
sit down with his client and review the ramifications of this type of
modification.  They both need to come to an agreement as to what is needed
and how it would be implemented and the impact on the client's operation.
Without this agreement both could have problems.


Richard Kreiss
GCC Consulting
rkreiss at gccconsulting.net
? 






> -----Original Message-----
> From: filepro-list-bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com
[mailto:filepro-list-
> bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com] On Behalf Of John Esak
> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 11:34 AM
> To: filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> Subject: RE: Re: Multiple Location Inventory Design
> 
> Scolding, huh?  I must sound like Bill O'Reilly...   Eek.
> 
> John
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.com
> > [mailto:filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.co
> m] On Behalf Of Walter Vaughan
> > Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 10:55 AM
> > To: filePro
> > Subject: OT: Re: Multiple Location Inventory Design
> >
> > John Esak wrote:
> >
> > >I re-read this note and I know you're going to read it as
> > heavy handed, but
> > >when will it ever be time for people to just deal with the
> > questions as they
> > >are put and not include in the answer or have the whole answer be the
> > >suggestion to use a different tool than filePro. That is
> > simply not what
> > >it's all about here, and you,
> > >Walter, certainly know that.
> > >
> > >
> > Yes, I agree with you.
> >
> > I started as well typing a response that had the whole-tree structure
> > and then I realized that the right long term solution
> > for the client may not be the one that benefits the filepro developer.
> > That's all.
> >
> > I guess in all cases that's a default point, except in this
> > case with the required changes to sales orders, gl accounts,
> > and the like
> > that probably will be step 2 or 3, I thought it might be
> > helpful to stand up
> > and make sure the boat is actually headed in the right direction.
> >
> > Scolding duly noted.
> >
> > Your friend in filePro,
> > Walter
> > _______________________________________________
> > Filepro-list mailing list
> > Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> > http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing list
> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list



From sellich at guaranteedreturns.com  Fri Mar 26 14:42:08 2010
From: sellich at guaranteedreturns.com (Chris Sellitto)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 17:42:08 -0400
Subject: Maintain System Creation Date (GRX)
Message-ID: <A7A4697363A42F4FB64598C8C54A88400D05F5@NYEXCH1.extranet.guaranteedreturns.com>

All,

A while back I had posted about retaining the @cd date when doing an archive, and suggested that filePro? have some sort of switch on the copy command that would retain this value.  Well fast forward to today.  We had a need to retain this date again, and I came up with a way that worked for us.  Maybe someone has already done this in filePro?, but I have not seen it yet.

I have only tried this in a Windows environment.

What we did is in our code we set up a counter to increment by 1 every time we get a new record.  Only when the counter equals 1 do we save the current date in a dummy variable.  Then for every record we save the @cd date of the current record in a dummy variable.  We then immediately issue the filePro? system command issuing a "DATE" command concatenated with the @cd dummy variable.  This will change the system date of the machine to that @cd date.  Then we do a free record lookup, and copy the current record to the new file, which now has the old @cd date attached to it.  When the process is complete, just do an @done, and set the date back to the original date from when you started, and everything is back to normal.

This actually worked.  And it seemed almost too easy.

Of course this process would be run off hours as to not affect anyone on the system.  But that is when we do our archives anyway.

It may not be the best way of achieving this task, but it does work.  Hope it works for somebody else.

Just a sample.......


     LABEL             D E F I N E   P R O C E S S I N G               5.0.14RN
???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
  1  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
       ? If:
       Then: ct(8,.0,g)=ct+"1"
  2  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
       ? If: ct eq "1"
       Then: sd(8,mdy/,g)=@td
  3  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
       ? If:
       Then: ds(8,mdy/)=@cd
  4  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
       ? If:
       Then: system "date"<ds
  5  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
       ? If:
       Then: lookup temp = gr_vend at temp  r=free  -e
  6  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
       ? If:
       Then: copy temp
  7  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
       ? If:
       Then: end
  8  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
@done  ? If:
       Then:
  9  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
       ? If:
       Then: system "date"<sd
10  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
       ? If:
       Then: end


Christopher Sellitto
VP Computer Operations
Guaranteed Returns?


From bruce at stn.com  Fri Mar 26 14:54:14 2010
From: bruce at stn.com (Bruce Easton)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 17:54:14 -0400
Subject: Maintain System Creation Date (GRX)
In-Reply-To: <A7A4697363A42F4FB64598C8C54A88400D05F5@NYEXCH1.extranet.guaranteedreturns.com>
References: <A7A4697363A42F4FB64598C8C54A88400D05F5@NYEXCH1.extranet.guaranteedreturns.com>
Message-ID: <4BAD2D06.5040203@stn.com>

(top post)

Neat trick - I had not heard of that.  And you didn't see any smoke 
rising from the server
while all that was going on?

Bruce

Bruce Easton
STN, Inc.



On 3/26/10 5:42 PM, Chris Sellitto wrote:
> All,
>
> A while back I had posted about retaining the @cd date when doing an archive, and suggested that filePro? have some sort of switch on the copy command that would retain this value.  Well fast forward to today.  We had a need to retain this date again, and I came up with a way that worked for us.  Maybe someone has already done this in filePro?, but I have not seen it yet.
>
> I have only tried this in a Windows environment.
>
> What we did is in our code we set up a counter to increment by 1 every time we get a new record.  Only when the counter equals 1 do we save the current date in a dummy variable.  Then for every record we save the @cd date of the current record in a dummy variable.  We then immediately issue the filePro? system command issuing a "DATE" command concatenated with the @cd dummy variable.  This will change the system date of the machine to that @cd date.  Then we do a free record lookup, and copy the current record to the new file, which now has the old @cd date attached to it.  When the process is complete, just do an @done, and set the date back to the original date from when you started, and everything is back to normal.
>
> This actually worked.  And it seemed almost too easy.
>
> Of course this process would be run off hours as to not affect anyone on the system.  But that is when we do our archives anyway.
>
> It may not be the best way of achieving this task, but it does work.  Hope it works for somebody else.
>
> Just a sample.......
>
>
>       LABEL             D E F I N E   P R O C E S S I N G               5.0.14RN
> ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
>    1  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
>         ? If:
>         Then: ct(8,.0,g)=ct+"1"
>    2  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
>         ? If: ct eq "1"
>         Then: sd(8,mdy/,g)=@td
>    3  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
>         ? If:
>         Then: ds(8,mdy/)=@cd
>    4  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
>         ? If:
>         Then: system "date"<ds
>    5  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
>         ? If:
>         Then: lookup temp = gr_vend at temp  r=free  -e
>    6  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
>         ? If:
>         Then: copy temp
>    7  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
>         ? If:
>         Then: end
>    8  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
> @done  ? If:
>         Then:
>    9  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
>         ? If:
>         Then: system "date"<sd
> 10  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
>         ? If:
>         Then: end
>
>
> Christopher Sellitto
> VP Computer Operations
> Guaranteed Returns?
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>    


From john at valar.com  Fri Mar 26 15:07:27 2010
From: john at valar.com (John Esak)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 18:07:27 -0400
Subject: Maintain System Creation Date (GRX)
In-Reply-To: <A7A4697363A42F4FB64598C8C54A88400D05F5@NYEXCH1.extranet.guaranteedreturns.com>
Message-ID: <201003262208.o2QM83Hx098457@admin114.securesites.net>

Chris,
My hat is off to you... That is without doubt an incredible use of filePro
or any program to get something done. So, seriously, and really my
compliments.
It is another amazing tribute to the thing I've said since I first saw
Profile... It pretty much can do anything you can think of...   It's my
favorite thing about filePro, that anyone who puts in a little effort can
get his job done, no matter whether he is told by everyone It CAN'T BE DONE
or not... And whether they are a programmer or not. They just need to use
their mind and put the tools they know to work.

Now, for the answer I am compelled to give.  While your solution works and
you are aware of the drawbacks of changing the system time, so you only do
it at night.... Still, suggesting that others try this is probably not what
you want to do. For a Unix system, this would certainly work (or a tiny
variant of it), but it would be pure anathema to any system administrator.
You should just never, ever, do anything like that.  Again, if you're on a
single user system and hve that much control, you can do whatever you need
and want to do.  Like I say kudos... But before you do that again, I would
be happy to whip up a couple lines of code for you that would do this
without any chance of devastation or problem.  It would only be a matter of
"WRITING" the free record you just got to which you just did the LOOKUP and
COPY. Then before leaving the record use some quick file I/O to get that
newly created record and use the xxxBUF(16|32) commands in filePro to place
the correct system date into the header of each record. I'll think about it
next week sometime... It isn't "real" hard, but there are a couple gotchas
you need to get around... But it is way safer than what you're doing... I
cn't put any brain power on it now... I've got lots of stuff planned for
tonight and this weekend.  Monday, if someone hasn't posted the code
already... I'll attack it and post it soon thereafter.  I must have missed
your original query, or just overlooked it when you first posted it, sorry.

But really, that is a very creative and obviously workable thing you've come
up with.. I just cringe at the blood vessels it will be popping in half the
old-timers of this forum. :-)

John


> -----Original Message-----
> From: filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.com 
> [mailto:filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.co
m] On Behalf Of Chris Sellitto
> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 5:42 PM
> To: filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> Subject: Maintain System Creation Date (GRX)
> 
> All,
> 
> A while back I had posted about retaining the @cd date when 
> doing an archive, and suggested that fileProR have some sort 
> of switch on the copy command that would retain this value.  
> Well fast forward to today.  We had a need to retain this 
> date again, and I came up with a way that worked for us.  
> Maybe someone has already done this in fileProR, but I have 
> not seen it yet.
> 
> I have only tried this in a Windows environment.
> 
> What we did is in our code we set up a counter to increment 
> by 1 every time we get a new record.  Only when the counter 
> equals 1 do we save the current date in a dummy variable.  
> Then for every record we save the @cd date of the current 
> record in a dummy variable.  We then immediately issue the 
> fileProR system command issuing a "DATE" command concatenated 
> with the @cd dummy variable.  This will change the system 
> date of the machine to that @cd date.  Then we do a free 
> record lookup, and copy the current record to the new file, 
> which now has the old @cd date attached to it.  When the 
> process is complete, just do an @done, and set the date back 
> to the original date from when you started, and everything is 
> back to normal.
> 
> This actually worked.  And it seemed almost too easy.
> 
> Of course this process would be run off hours as to not 
> affect anyone on the system.  But that is when we do our 
> archives anyway.
> 
> It may not be the best way of achieving this task, but it 
> does work.  Hope it works for somebody else.
> 
> Just a sample.......
> 
> 
>      LABEL             D E F I N E   P R O C E S S I N G      
>          5.0.14RN
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------------
>   1  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -  
>  -   -   -   -
>        ? If:
>        Then: ct(8,.0,g)=ct+"1"
>   2  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -  
>  -   -   -   -
>        ? If: ct eq "1"
>        Then: sd(8,mdy/,g)=@td
>   3  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -  
>  -   -   -   -
>        ? If:
>        Then: ds(8,mdy/)=@cd
>   4  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -  
>  -   -   -   -
>        ? If:
>        Then: system "date"<ds
>   5  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -  
>  -   -   -   -
>        ? If:
>        Then: lookup temp = gr_vend at temp  r=free  -e
>   6  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -  
>  -   -   -   -
>        ? If:
>        Then: copy temp
>   7  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -  
>  -   -   -   -
>        ? If:
>        Then: end
>   8  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -  
>  -   -   -   -
> @done  ? If:
>        Then:
>   9  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -  
>  -   -   -   -
>        ? If:
>        Then: system "date"<sd
> 10  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   
> -   -   -   -
>        ? If:
>        Then: end
> 
> 
> Christopher Sellitto
> VP Computer Operations
> Guaranteed ReturnsR
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing list
> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
> 


From rkreiss at verizon.net  Fri Mar 26 18:35:50 2010
From: rkreiss at verizon.net (Rkreiss@verizon.net])
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 21:35:50 -0400
Subject: Maintain System Creation Date (GRX)
Message-ID: <0KZX00D6S33OLRN2@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net>

Top post from phone

Chris,

What I would do in this situation to maintain system security is to add a field to my records which hold the crewstion date of the record.

Since I also work only in the Windows world, I automatically add a few fields missing from the windos version that are present in the *nix versions.  These are the created by, modified by and modified date.  When a record is entered I get the user name and the creation date.  When the  record is modified, I record who modified it and when.

Although John has suggested modifing the header, my solution to your problem is to add a created by fieldm post in @cd to this field and lock the field from modification.

This field not be changed and will transferred no matter whre the record goes. 

A non programmers solution to the problem, but it works without messiing with a computerd date.

Richsrd Kreiss
GCC Consulting


-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Sellitto <sellich at guaranteedreturns.com>
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 5:42 PM
To: filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
Subject: Maintain System Creation Date (GRX)

All,

A while back I had posted about retaining the @cd date when doing an archive, and suggested that filePro? have some sort of switch on the copy command that would retain this value.  Well fast forward to today.  We had a need to retain this date again, and I came up with a way that worked for us  Maybe someone has already done this in filePro?, but I have not seen it yet.

I have only tried this in a Windows environment.

What we did is in our code we set up a counter to increment by 1 every time we get a new record.  Only when the counter equals 1 do we save the current date in a dummy variable.  Then for every record we save the @cd date of the current record in a dummy variable.  We then immediately issue the filePro? system command issuing a "DATE" command concatenated with the @cd dummy variable.  This will change the system date of the machine to that @cd date.  Then we do a free record lookup, and copy the current record to the new file, which now has the old @cd date attached to it.  When the process is complete, just do an @done, and set the date back to the original date from when you started, and everything is back to normal.

This actually worked.  And it seemed almost too easy.

Of course this process would be run off hours as to not affect anyone on the system.  But that is when we do our archives anyway.

It may not be the best way of achieving this task, but it does work.  Hope it works for somebody else.

Just a sample.......


     LABEL             D E F I N E   P R O C E S S I N G               5.0.14RN
???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
  1  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
       ? If:
       Then: ct(8,.0,g)=ct+"1"
  2  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
       ? If: ct eq "1"
       Then: sd(8,mdy/,g)=@td
  3  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
       ? If:
       Then: ds(8,mdy/)=@cd
  4  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
       ? If:
       Then: system "date"<ds
  5  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
       ? If:
       Then: lookup temp = gr_vend at temp  r=free  -e
  6  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
       ? If:
       Then: copy temp
  7  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
       ? If:
       Then: end
  8  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
@done  ? If:
       Then:
  9  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
       ? If:
       Then: system "date"<sd
10  -------   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
       ? If:
       Then: end


Christopher Sellitto
VP Computer Operations
Guaranteed Returns?

_______________________________________________
Filepro-list mailing list
Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list


From fairlite at fairlite.com  Fri Mar 26 18:48:21 2010
From: fairlite at fairlite.com (Fairlight)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 21:48:21 -0400
Subject: Maintain System Creation Date (GRX)
In-Reply-To: <201003262208.o2QM83Hx098457@admin114.securesites.net>;
	from john@valar.com on Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 06:07:27PM -0400
References: <A7A4697363A42F4FB64598C8C54A88400D05F5@NYEXCH1.extranet.guaranteedreturns.com>
	<201003262208.o2QM83Hx098457@admin114.securesites.net>
Message-ID: <20100326214820.A8725@iglou.com>

Is it just me, or did John Esak say:
> without any chance of devastation or problem.  It would only be a matter of
> "WRITING" the free record you just got to which you just did the LOOKUP and
> COPY. Then before leaving the record use some quick file I/O to get that
> newly created record and use the xxxBUF(16|32) commands in filePro to place
> the correct system date into the header of each record. I'll think about it
> next week sometime... It isn't "real" hard, but there are a couple gotchas
> you need to get around... But it is way safer than what you're doing... I
> cn't put any brain power on it now... I've got lots of stuff planned for
> tonight and this weekend.  Monday, if someone hasn't posted the code
> already... I'll attack it and post it soon thereafter.  I must have missed
> your original query, or just overlooked it when you first posted it, sorry.

Seems to me that the "extra" codeless way of doing this would be to set
up a VM running Windows on the same system, give the VM access to the
requisite areas of the filesystem, and run the processing the OP already
had inside the VM.  filePro (and indeed everything) outside the VM would
be none the wiser, as the "real" system time would be maintained, while the
VM could function with the modified "system clock".

Sounds like a job for VirtualBox.

mark->

From john at valar.com  Fri Mar 26 20:47:58 2010
From: john at valar.com (John Esak)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 23:47:58 -0400
Subject: Maintain System Creation Date (GRX)
In-Reply-To: <20100326230147.A10106@iglou.com>
Message-ID: <201003270348.o2R3mYv9093421@admin114.securesites.net>

Oh sorry, didn't mean to send that privately.

But (top posted as usual)  there is a strangeness when using SYSTEM in
Linux.. Only because I'm used to SCO (okay, yuck accepted).  Don't you
remember the endless hours we spent in the FP Room sorting out the thing
Dennis Malen originally found wouldn't work for something similar when he
was constructing a Lightmail line for the SYSTEM.. .I do. Ugh. We went
around for not hours but days.

The long and short of it disregarding PFEUID and something like PFFIXROOT or
PFROOTFIX.. I forget.  Anyway, disregarding them.  Based on the actual
Linux, but pretty much 99% of the time. If you are a regular user and go
down to the SYSTEM you are ID stays that user since filePro's rclerk/rreport
are SETUID executables.  If you are root and go down to the SYSTEM you are
converted to filePro... That bugs me. I'm already working as root, why
should Linux force me to be some other entity?  But it does. 

That's all, no big deal except it creates havoc when creating files and then
wanting to do something in them or remove them, etc. Really about the best
fix is something I think Bill Randall told Jim Asman a while back... Just
set umask to the desired mod and that gives you a little more help.

My gripe is that if you are already executing the program as root and it is
SETUID... And that program forks a shell.. You get it as filepro... Don't
you see that as stupid?

John

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fairlight [mailto:fairlite at fairlite.com] 
> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 11:02 PM
> To: John Esak
> Subject: Re: Maintain System Creation Date (GRX)
> 
> Confusious (John Esak) say:
> > Ah, that's pretty cool. I seem to remember vm ware could do 
> that stuff.
> 
> Yeah, VMWare is basically a commercial alternative to 
> VirtualBox with a few
> extra bells and whistles.
> 
> > It's funny, you would think that exact thing would be on 
> the "this is too
> > dangerous for mere mortals since it is a HUGE, HUMONGOUS 
> security leak"
> > thing.  I mean you could do anything with invoices, 
> timestamped the way you
> > want, anything if you can set the system time in a script 
> environment and
> > not affect anything else.  
> 
> I suppose it could be construed as a security leak.  
> Although, to do a VM,
> you need physical (or RDP) access to the machine to start and 
> set it up and
> do an install.  Then you can -still- restrict access to the 
> VM itself like
> any other *nix machine, via accounts.  And shared folder access in
> VirtualBox requires 1) building and installing the kernel 
> modules, and 
> 2) setting up the shared folders, which again must be done at 
> the host OS
> level...so again either physical or RDP access.
> 
> So in reality, it's no more a security risk than any normal 
> *nix box.  In
> fact, less so, as if it's cracked, it doesn't affect the host 
> OS unless you
> set things up with read/write shared folders, etc.  That's 
> why I have my
> OpenVPN inside a VM, rather than running as a Windows service 
> itself.  It's
> kind of a nice sandbox environment, really.
> 
> > This would seem contrary to the normal "linux idiocy" of not letting
> > someone who is *already* root not escape to the system 
> using filePro's
> > SYSTEM command - but rather forcing them to become 
> "filePro" since that
> > is who owns the filePro SUID program (either c8clerk or 
> c8rreport). This
> > always seemed so counter intutive to the way the little 
> shits think who
> > program the various linux flavors.
> 
> I don't follow.  There's no case of which I'm aware that you 
> can't get root
> access via the SYSTEM command in filePro.  The UID change is 
> bash's fault;
> if you're anyone other than filepro when you invoke an SUID 
> program, then
> it drops privs when the intervening bash is invoked by 
> system() at the C
> level.  If you were 'john' to start, you'll be 'john'.  If 
> you were root,
> it should drop you to root--which would be ironic, since you -gain-
> privileges by bash dropping the EUID.  :)
> 
> > I mean here in VM you can change the system time at your 
> need, and that
> > is surely a security problem of some kind, where what I 
> just realted,
> > isn't.  My feeling is ... If you are root already when you 
> call rclerk
> > and execute a SYSTEM command.. .why in the hell force this 
> ID change.
> > It's not counter intuitive, it's stupid.
> 
> Well it's sounding like what you're saying runs contrary to 
> what I just
> said above.  so I'm curious...if you do SYSTEM "id" on a 
> linux box, what
> comes back if you start as a normal (non-zero UID) user, and 
> what comes
> back if you started off as root?  In either event, bash 
> should just drop
> the EUID for filepro, and leave you as whatever your real UID is.
> 
> > Oh God, did I just open up a thread about Linux here in the 
> place I just
> > groused somebody else out for thread creaping away from 
> filePro... :-(
> > Okay, I take it all back.
> 
> Actually, you sent this privately only to me.  :)
> 
> mark->
> 


From fairlite at fairlite.com  Fri Mar 26 22:14:54 2010
From: fairlite at fairlite.com (Fairlight)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 01:14:54 -0400
Subject: Maintain System Creation Date (GRX)
In-Reply-To: <201003270348.o2R3mYv9093421@admin114.securesites.net>;
	from john@valar.com on Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 11:47:58PM -0400
References: <20100326230147.A10106@iglou.com>
	<201003270348.o2R3mYv9093421@admin114.securesites.net>
Message-ID: <20100327011453.A12837@iglou.com>

On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 11:47:58PM -0400, John Esak may or may not have
proven themselves an utter git by pronouncing:
> But (top posted as usual)  there is a strangeness when using SYSTEM in
> Linux.. Only because I'm used to SCO (okay, yuck accepted).  Don't you
> remember the endless hours we spent in the FP Room sorting out the thing
> Dennis Malen originally found wouldn't work for something similar when he
> was constructing a Lightmail line for the SYSTEM.. .I do. Ugh. We went
> around for not hours but days.
> 
> The long and short of it disregarding PFEUID and something like PFFIXROOT or
> PFROOTFIX.. I forget.  Anyway, disregarding them.  Based on the actual
> Linux, but pretty much 99% of the time. If you are a regular user and go
> down to the SYSTEM you are ID stays that user since filePro's rclerk/rreport
> are SETUID executables.  If you are root and go down to the SYSTEM you are
> converted to filePro... That bugs me. I'm already working as root, why
> should Linux force me to be some other entity?  But it does. 

Huh.  I can indeed confirm that via processing that just does:

SYSTEM "id > /tmp/fltid"

result:

uid=200(filepro) gid=200(filepro) groups=0(root),1(bin),2(daemon),3(sys),4(adm),6(disk),10(wheel)

That was starting su'd to root.  If I'm 'fairlite', it drops me back to
'fairlite'.  If I'm root, it drops me back to 'filepro'.  I just confirmed
it twice.

You know, ordinarily, obviously elevating someone to root is a bad idea.  I
figured this may be a bash issue, but apparently not.  I tried the
following tiny C program:

#include <stdio.h>

int main() {
        system("/usr/bin/id");
        exit(0);
}

Compiled that, and copied a.out to a.out2.  I left a.out just as owned root
and 755, I chowned a.out2 to filepro and made it 4711.  I ran both and got
the same output...both leaving me as root when starting as root.

I'm not sure what the mechanics actually are with fP, but this doesn't look
like a bash issue as I'd first assumed.  In fact, if I start both as
fairlite, I stay fairlite on a.out, and I'm dropped to fairlite on a.out2,
which -is- bash's doing.

This almost looks like it's rclerk doing it, but I'd have to use strace to
be even remotely sure, and...frankly I already put in more time than it's
worth to me on a Friday night.  :)

I do see the behaviour your describe, however.

> That's all, no big deal except it creates havoc when creating files and then
> wanting to do something in them or remove them, etc. Really about the best
> fix is something I think Bill Randall told Jim Asman a while back... Just
> set umask to the desired mod and that gives you a little more help.

Depends what you need to do to them afterwards.  :)

> My gripe is that if you are already executing the program as root and it is
> SETUID... And that program forks a shell.. You get it as filepro... Don't
> you see that as stupid?

Frankly, not only yes, but "Hell yes, SIR!"  :)  

It should be easy to check uid and if it's actually zero, then don't change
euid to filepro's.  And that change has to be happening somewhere, because
uid is actually getting set.  If I didn't know better, I'd say it was
filePro itself doing this, because it doesn't match any behaviour I've ever
seen.  I suppose it's Yet Another Bash Bug, but that's hard to test without
ripping into bash's source code or replacing bash...which, again...Friday
night, games to play, back recovering from a week of agony...I think not.

Definitely screwy though.  And definitely not the behaviour I'd expect.

mark->
-- 
Audio panton, cogito singularis,

From bill at celestial.com  Sat Mar 27 10:03:06 2010
From: bill at celestial.com (Bill Campbell)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 10:03:06 -0700
Subject: Maintain System Creation Date (GRX)
In-Reply-To: <201003270348.o2R3mYv9093421@admin114.securesites.net>
References: <20100326230147.A10106@iglou.com>
	<201003270348.o2R3mYv9093421@admin114.securesites.net>
Message-ID: <20100327170306.GC5077@ayn.mi.celestial.com>

On Fri, Mar 26, 2010, John Esak wrote:
>Oh sorry, didn't mean to send that privately.
>
>But (top posted as usual)  there is a strangeness when using SYSTEM in
>Linux.. Only because I'm used to SCO (okay, yuck accepted).  Don't you
>remember the endless hours we spent in the FP Room sorting out the thing
>Dennis Malen originally found wouldn't work for something similar when he
>was constructing a Lightmail line for the SYSTEM.. .I do. Ugh. We went
>around for not hours but days.
>
>The long and short of it disregarding PFEUID and something like PFFIXROOT or
>PFROOTFIX.. I forget.  Anyway, disregarding them.  Based on the actual
>Linux, but pretty much 99% of the time. If you are a regular user and go
>down to the SYSTEM you are ID stays that user since filePro's rclerk/rreport
>are SETUID executables.  If you are root and go down to the SYSTEM you are
>converted to filePro... That bugs me. I'm already working as root, why
>should Linux force me to be some other entity?  But it does. 

This problem has been around since the early days of Profile 16+
on Tandy Xenix.  If only they had used setgid instead of setuid,
and put group write/execute permissions on everything in the FP
directories...

>That's all, no big deal except it creates havoc when creating files and then
>wanting to do something in them or remove them, etc. Really about the best
>fix is something I think Bill Randall told Jim Asman a while back... Just
>set umask to the desired mod and that gives you a little more help.
>
>My gripe is that if you are already executing the program as root and it is
>SETUID... And that program forks a shell.. You get it as filepro... Don't
>you see that as stupid?

Actually it's that way to provide some security to minimize the
damage of one has a setuid root bash or other shell, it just
might keep the cracker a bit distracted -- although probably not.

I don't remember all the details, but I think that on SCO systems
once a program has done the setuid thingy, it can't get back to
the original uid.  I suspect that one could get around this using
a proper fork/exec instead of a system call with something like
this python example (not tested so I may have arguments wrong).

import os, sys
pid = os.fork()
if not pid:
	# I am the child
	setiuid(...)
	os.execl('/bin/sh', ...)
	# raise error here since exec failed.
#}
# wait for the child to exit
os.wait(pid)

BTW, It's a common misconception that the st_ctime time of an
object on the file system is the creation time on *nix systems.
It is actually the time the status of the object changed which
includes actions like chmod, chown, and chgrp which don't change
the st_mtime (modification time) or st_atime (access time).

Using any of the stat() times to govern actions is not really
safe as ``touch'' can change the st_mtime, the utime() system
call can change st_mtime and st_atime, and file systems can be
mounted with the noatime option so that the access times are not
updated (they're pretty useless in any case if one is doing full
file system backups).

Bill
-- 
INTERNET:   bill at celestial.com  Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC
URL: http://www.celestial.com/  PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way
Voice:          (206) 236-1676  Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820
Fax:            (206) 232-9186  Skype: jwccsllc (206) 855-5792

A perpetual and unlimited debt represents deficit spending as a social
principle. It means a progressive redistribution of wealth by will of
government until there is no more fat to divide; after that comes a level
rationing of the national income. It means in the end the cheapening
of money and then inflation, whereby the middle class is economically
murdered in its sleep. In the arsenal of revolution the perfect weapon
is inflation. -- Garet Garrett, The Revolution Was

From john at valar.com  Tue Mar 30 21:22:13 2010
From: john at valar.com (John Esak)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 00:22:13 -0400
Subject: ADV: SCO/filePro system for sale...
Message-ID: <201003310422.o2V4MlMn002998@admin114.securesites.net>


Hi,

I have a 300Gb SATA 2.0 drive with a SCO 5.7 5-user license and a licensed
DevSys loaded on it. There is also a 15-user filePro 5.6 system with Fpxfer
loaded, and a 15 user FacetWin license loaded as well.  With this hard drive
goes an Intel Pro 1000 1Gb NIC, a 256Gb DDR-2 memory stick, and a *NEW* Sony
SDT-11000 DDS-4 DAT tape drive.

I believe all three licenses can be transferred legally since they are
staying on their original drive and network card.

I will be putting these main components together with a case and motherboard
specified by the buyer.  If no one buys this stuff, I will put it into a
small mini-tower case with a motherboard that has a2.4Gb Core II Duo chip.
It will go on my shelf as a super spare server for any of the myriad clients
I have out there who will one day need such a thing.  How do I know someone
will one day need it?  Believe me, I just know. I've done dozens of upgrades
from old systems to new ones like this.... It's just that they have usually
been done under the duress of a crashed old machine.

For a forward thinking person, though, this could be a ready to go upgrade
that will smoothly replace a system you currently rely on now, but are
getting worried about. Perhaps, the tape drive is old, or the whole system
is old. The SCSI hard drives we used to buy lasted far longer than the 5
years they were warranted for and now are probably going on 10 years if you
upgraded around the 2k scare.  Moving your users, filePro and other apps to
this new box while you are comfortably working instead of trying to do it in
the aftermath of a serious system stopping crash would be so much more
comfortable and profitable, wouldn't it?  For whoever buys this unit, I can
be cajoled into helping with the transfer and upgrade as well, however,
there is a substantial charge for this since that is the last thing I want
to do these days.  I think I would charge $1k for taking responsibility for
the transfer/upgrade and making sure everything works properly on the new
system.  

I want  only $2,500 for the main pieces all put into a fully working box
with a brand new motherboard. That's the licenses, the hard drive the
motherboard, memory and tape machine. An extra $1.500 would get me for a day
as well. If you are in the NYC area, I would come to your place for a day
(preferably a Sunday (and possibly adding Saturday as well... Depending on
the size/complexity of your existing system). Doing it on a weekend usually
ensures that the transfer/upgrade doesn't interfere with your working
system, and the transfer is smooth and unnoticed by your users.  It could be
a situation where you are working the next day (Monday).  If you are far
away from Harrisburg, I would have to have net access to your old system to
do the work. My feeling is that a weekend will easily allow enough time for
the changeover to the new system. I need to be allowed to work through the
night. You do not have to stay up with me... :-)

This is a deal in two completely different ways. A completed box with what
it has in it is worth far more than $2,500.  So, just by itself it's a deal,
and for technically minded administrators who have done this kind of upgrade
before, this is a very inexpensive way to move to a new machine with new
licenses... While *keeping* your old system and its licenses. Actually, I'm
hoping this is the kind of sale I make for this system. I hate
responsibility and work these days. :-)

If my talents (??) are purchased to manage the transfer/upgrade from your
old Unix box to this new one, then that also is a great deal. Why?
Well, $1.5k for my guarantee that everything will work fine on the new
system whether it takes me 1 or 2 days ... Is a really good deal since I
don't usually work for any amount of money these days. :-)  For a small
operation, mom and pop business, perhaps, without a Unix guru on hand, this
kind of an upgrade would be virtually impossible. So, in order to make the
sale, and to offer this good stuff to the widest audience here on the list,
I will do the transfer/upgrade for the $1.5k.  I will not make this offer to
anyone who buys the unit off eBay. I will be posting it on eBay as a
complete box for a starting price of $2.5k Saturday (April 10th) if no one
on the mailing list takes advantage of it before then.

Now, there are a few serious caveats to this otherwise staggeringly
well-priced deal.  Whether you buy my services in conjunction with the
hardware or not, you need to be well aware of these things. Mostly they deal
with my participation if I'm retained to do the transfer.

1. 
The SCO license is only 5 user. So, you would need to access the system
through only 5 legacy type terminals or the console, and the rest of the 15
users would need to use the FacetWin license... Meaning any PC can login and
use the SCO and filePro without problem. Any serial printers in your system,
you need to count them up and be sure the whole legacy SCO access does not
exceed 5 users. Network printers and FacetWin printers do not tick the
license count. (Or, of course you can purchase a user bump from wherever one
gets such a thing these days.)

2.
For any applications other than filePro which you want to work on the new
system, you must have a movable license for them. Also, the operation of
said application must be totally your concern and worry.  With the
exception, perhaps, of WordPerfect (and even Scripsit I suppose) there
aren't many applications I can make work without problem... And even those
two are a little iffy. :-)  Basically, I know my limitations, I can handle
anything that comes up related to SCO and related to filePro, and related to
FacetWin. I can move all O/S based scripting and PATH things correctly to
work on the new system.  All else will have to be your concern.  I will
help, but I can't be the final guarantor of anything outside the three
programs, SCO, filePro, FacetWin. (AnzioWin and PrintWizard will work on the
new system with no problem, and maybe one or two others... But I'm not going
to count on anything other than the big 3, SCO, filePro and FacetWin.)

3. 
For the time I'm working on the transfer, I will need root privileges on the
old and new Unix box, as well as Administrator privileges on any PC that
needs to connect with the Unix box through FacetWin. If my help is purchased
for the transfer/upgrade, I will help set up old Facetwin shares, and
printers.

4.
If I can not be physically "on-site" to do the transfer, I will need a
reasonably "technically competent" person to assist me at various points
during the upgrade. For example, if for some reason a network connection can
not be established with the old box to move the user data to the new
machine, then I would need to have the assistant attach the Sony DAT drive
to the old machine so backups can be made.  The, it would need to be moved
to the new machine.  Other physical help may be needed from time to time if
I can not be on site.

5.
Any work done on the GUI side of the SCO 5.6 can not be supported by me.
Should you need to work on a scologin screen, you must set this up yourself.
I will put a working GUI on one of the 12 console logins and you must take
it from there. (Sorry, like I say, I know my limitations.)

6. If more than 5 users are going to be accessing this system
simultaneously, I suggest that another 256Gb memory stick be installed in
the unit for at least 1Gb of memory.

7.
I must suggest that whoever buys this system from me, obtains a new
BackupEDGE support contract for this box.  It already has a licensed copy of
BackupEDGE loaded on it, and this may be transferable, I'm not sure at the
writing of this message. I will find out shortly and post the answer.  If it
can be transferred, great, you get it as part of the price of the unit. If
it can't, you really should buy a license so the machine can be backed up
securely and often.

8.
At some point, the purchaser of my services will have to "release" me from
service.  I suggest that this will happen when a full backup tape of the new
machine is made in a completely working state. By working state, I mean viz
the terms above... SCO, filePro, FacetWin... Some standard extras like
AnzioWin and PrintWizard, etc.  The network will function. You will have
access to the net or not from the Unix box as desired.

9.
There may be some things I've forgotten. Nothing major.  If my services are
purchased as well as the hardware and licenses, I may require that a simple
written contract that states essentially what I've listed here be signed
between us.  I am usually not so careful, but since I am retired, I do not
want anything to be taken for granted after the buyer is satisfied with the
initial transfer/upgrade.

10.  Remember, this system goes on eBay next week (April 10th). If you're
interested, contact me soon.

John Esak
john at valar.com (put SCO system in the subject...)
(717) 889-4689


From nlp at vss3.com  Wed Mar 31 08:40:17 2010
From: nlp at vss3.com (Nancy Palmquist)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:40:17 -0400
Subject: Windows7 Compatible for filePro
Message-ID: <4BB36CE1.6090005@vss3.com>

Guys,

I am wondering if anyone would suggest that filePro 5.6 is Windows 7 
compatible.  I can certainly install it and make it work on my Windows7 
computer.  I had to license it to the Drive ID, but it works.

My hesitation is in the area of printing.  I am seeing a real disconnect 
with the ability to print from filePro to the new printers available for 
new machines with Win7.

The newer printers seem to have PCL6 instead of PCL5.

If filepro would provide, out of the box, a proper way to handle 
printing on Windows, I think I would feel better about suggesting that 
my software - built under filepro - is windows 7 compatible.

Also, I have no good way to provide an installation CD for my MOS 
software that will properly install both the filePro runtime and my 
application.  I am still hung up on that licensing requirement that they 
download a file, instead of an interface that allows them to enter an 
activation code on the screen.  My customers are stuck on 5.0 for this 
application, because there is no way I can distribute an application and 
have the end user get a license file, supply a license file on a 
"diskette?" .

So to tell Microsoft that I have tested my application and it is Windows 
7 compatible has left me cold.  I don't think filePro has the features 
that would meet that level of functionality on Windows7.

BTW, I have been using Win7 since Jan and have found it nice.  I have 
even stopped turning around to use my Unix keyboard and have left 
AnzioWin sessions open in Win7.  It works great like that.  I have 
almost all the tools I need.  I still have to connect a USB faxmodem for 
faxing, but that was not urgent.

Nancy


-- 
Nancy Palmquist         MOS&  filePro Training Available
Virtual Software Systems    Web Based Training and Consulting
PHONE: (412) 835-9417           Web site:  http://www.vss3.com


From nlpalmquist at comcast.net  Wed Mar 31 08:06:53 2010
From: nlpalmquist at comcast.net (Nancy Palmquist)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:06:53 -0400
Subject: PRINTER type and PRINTER name
Message-ID: <4BB3650D.4030907@comcast.net>

I am posting this because it needs to be documented for others.

I have a project where we print forms from clerk on a Windows Computer.

I start by having them select a printer from a database list of 
printers.  That gives me the filepro
printer name.

I wanted them to use a different print code table than the one assigned 
to the printer they selected for the forms
that they print from this database.

So here is what I did.  In the @once processing, they select the 
printer, I issue the following commands:

printer type (my_prttype{"")
printer name (my_prtname{"")

We were getting the wrong print codes.  Not the ones I issued in the 
PRINTER TYPE command, but the table associated with the printer name. It 
is easy to tell you this now but it took a bunch of paper and testing to 
narrow down what was going wrong.  Our projects started trying to print 
to an envelop bin in a funny font.

Well my solution was simple, reverse the commands so it assigns the 
PRINTER TYPE after the PRINTER NAME.

For good measure, I added PRINTER TYPE before I process the various 
forms just to make sure it always uses the right table.

I also want to note in this posting that we tried to use FORMM to 
collect the various pages into one document.  The output always is 
followed by the same form so it would get the FORM command.  After a few 
records, we would get a memory error on the FORMM line of the 
processing.  Changing FORMM to FORM fixed that issue.  I tried 
everything to keep the FORMM so the pages would print in order properly, 
but to no avail.  We do not change printers or code tables after we pass 
the @once processing, so we were not telling it bad stuff.

I can not figure what it could be, except a bug.  I removed the 
initialization and termination codes on each form, because I thought 
maybe that was it, but inserting codes in a document should not crash 
memory.

Well these are my observations for today, hope you enjoy them. The list 
needed something filePro related.

Nancy



-- 
Nancy Palmquist


From fairlite at fairlite.com  Wed Mar 31 10:46:40 2010
From: fairlite at fairlite.com (Fairlight)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 13:46:40 -0400
Subject: Windows7 Compatible for filePro
In-Reply-To: <4BB36CE1.6090005@vss3.com>;
	from nlp@vss3.com on Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 11:40:17AM -0400
References: <4BB36CE1.6090005@vss3.com>
Message-ID: <20100331134640.A7073@iglou.com>

Simon--er, no...it was Nancy Palmquist--said:
> Guys,
> 
> I am wondering if anyone would suggest that filePro 5.6 is Windows 7 
> compatible.  I can certainly install it and make it work on my Windows7 
> computer.  I had to license it to the Drive ID, but it works.

Then technically, I'd say it's compatible.

The reality is that I can't think of anything that fP does that's not
compatible, unless Windows entirely stripped out the "DOS" type console, or
changed the API to it.  If fP runs, the rest is pretty generic.  I've not
seen the internals, but just by looking at what it does and doesn't do,
there's nothing magical there that seems to rely on specific versions of
any given OS, barring shared library version issues on linux.

> My hesitation is in the area of printing.  I am seeing a real disconnect 
> with the ability to print from filePro to the new printers available for 
> new machines with Win7.
> 
> The newer printers seem to have PCL6 instead of PCL5.

Try using PrintWizard from Rasmussen Software?

PCL6 is not a Windows 7 thing, it's a printer industry thing.  Blame HP.

> If filepro would provide, out of the box, a proper way to handle 
> printing on Windows, I think I would feel better about suggesting that 
> my software - built under filepro - is windows 7 compatible.

Luck on that.  :/  If it hasn't happened in the last half decade, I don't
see it happening anytime soon, if ever.

> Also, I have no good way to provide an installation CD for my MOS 
> software that will properly install both the filePro runtime and my 
> application.  I am still hung up on that licensing requirement that they 
> download a file, instead of an interface that allows them to enter an 
> activation code on the screen.  My customers are stuck on 5.0 for this 
> application, because there is no way I can distribute an application and 
> have the end user get a license file, supply a license file on a 
> "diskette?" .

-Assuming- that you don't mind an installer just copying files to their
proper location, rather than doing a full, official "finish" each time,
what about making an actual setup installer with something like InnoSetup,
or NSIS?  You could make that install everything, both fP and the custom
system you have.  Actually, you could have InnoSetup run "finish",
technically speaking, but that seems like a Bad Idea[tm] to give the power
to screw that up to a customer.

As for the license...it just depends how you do it.  Do you get the license
for them anyway and install it yourself, or do you have them go through the
actual licensing step on the way?  Because if it's the latter, there's
quite possibly a way to programmatically grab the required information and
post it to the fP-Tech web site, then download the file.  It would involve
writing an application to do so, however, and then having the installer run
that program.  You'd just bundle it into the installer and have the
installer run it as part of the install process--just like lots of programs
run sub-installers for the Microsoft Visual C++ 2005 Runtime Executable
Libraries, or DirectX.  Same principle, except this program needs to get
data from the system and then grab the right stuff from fP-Tech.

If you get the license for them yourself anyway, you could just copy the
license file to the right spot in the distribution and recompile a new
installer for each client.  That's the dead easy way of doing it.

> So to tell Microsoft that I have tested my application and it is Windows 
> 7 compatible has left me cold.  I don't think filePro has the features 
> that would meet that level of functionality on Windows7.

You're actually wanting to bother with Windows 7 certification?  I
wouldn't.  I mean...let's face reality...  If the software works on the
platform, it works on the platform.  Certification logos look great on a
website that sells heavily consumer-oriented, commodity software (WinZip,
Carbonite, Acronis, etc.).  Your software doesn't really fall into that
category, though.  It's specialised.  So what's the point of certification,
in reality?

If it has to do with getting an installer signed...that's a different
creature entirely.  WinXP complains about unsigned installers of certain
types, but has never once complained about my unsigned InnoSetup
installers.

I guess the question is, what's your goal in obtaining certification?

> BTW, I have been using Win7 since Jan and have found it nice.  I have 
> even stopped turning around to use my Unix keyboard and have left 
> AnzioWin sessions open in Win7.  It works great like that.  I have 
> almost all the tools I need.  I still have to connect a USB faxmodem for 
> faxing, but that was not urgent.

I'll drop XP when they officially EOL it.  Seeing as they have XP mode for
Windows 7, that tells me that there's still a need for XP, and EOL
shouldn't come anytime soon.  Even when they do EOL XP, it'll likely be EOL
for support/patches for the standalone distribution, not for the software
itself.  It'll probably be mostly a marketing/money decision, not a
technical reality, even if they enforce it.

I still put XP's EOL at 2017 or later, based on what happened with Win2K,
past policies, and the fact that just a year (two tops) ago they actually
released an entirely fresh pool of activation licenses for XP.  Which
means that we're likely looking at around 10yrs out from the last batch of
activation licenses before they entirely kill it.

Whether games and other applications will keep supporting XP is another
thing entirely.  There are a few games Microsoft released that are Vista or
higher only.  There's one non-MS game that requires Vista or higher.  I
don't personally know of any applications that won't support XP, but I can
only see that becoming an issue with things like Photoshop, or video
editing software.  Mostly what will be the driving criterion are two
things:  1) does the app/game need DirectX 10 or higher (most still fully
support 9.0c, which is the last for XP), and 2) does the vendor want to
spend money supporting a third platform.

For gaming, #1 is going to drive the question faster than #2, because those
that have DX10/11 want (demand, usually) that games use the features.  For
applications, it'll likely be #2 that drives the question more heavily.
That said, if you develop intelligently, there's nothing your garden
variety application can't do on XP that it can do on Vista or 7.  DX10/11
are pretty much the main things to watch out for, from what I can tell.

Which didn't stop ATI from dropping driver support for their cards five
years in advance of Win2K EOL.  And that didn't stop a lot of us from
dropping support for ATI in favour of NVidia--who still make Win95 versions
of their drivers.

A lot of this is marketing, money, and political, rather than technically
motivated.  Most of it can be dumped squarely back in Microsoft's lap,
too.  Though Microsoft would have you believe otherwise, DirectX 10 didn't
require Vista.  In fact, there's a project done by an outside group that
makes it work on XP.  The DX10 claim was spin to push their latest revenue
stream.  And it actually failed pretty miserably, considering the general
educated opinion of Vista.  A lot of us cling to XP yet.

mark->
-- 
Audio panton, cogito singularis,

From rkreiss at verizon.net  Wed Mar 31 11:02:47 2010
From: rkreiss at verizon.net (Rkreiss@verizon.net])
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 14:02:47 -0400
Subject: Windows7 Compatible for filePro
Message-ID: <0L05004S3RKURV43@vms173013.mailsrvcs.net>

Top post from phone:

I am presently running fp on my new Thinkpad running Win7.

The speed is execellent and so far all of my programming runs fine.

I need to test printing as I normally print to file and use Printwizard to convert the file to a pdf and then display it.  Saves a lot of money on paper.

As for licensing, I agree that there needs to be a better way to do this.  I think that there should be a way to write an app, at least for Windos that could get the drive serial # and enter it in the license file.  Then move the file to fp/lib under the proper name.

The only partial solution to the license problem would be to get the drive serial # as part of the sale.  Send it to Fp and then download the license.  As part of your install routine, advise to customer where to point FP's license.

Not a grewat solution but one that might work allowing updgrading to 5.6.

As for printers, you are right, more and more low price printers are not FP compatable.  RTF is not a solution.

Where my client's picked printers without first checking with me, I have resorted to using Printwizard.  Solves the problem without too much effort on my part.

I would love to see something like the printer functions of printwizard built into Fp.  Could be wreport.exe which would print using the current printer config file but translate the output prior to printing without having to set up pfpostprint and an outside app.

In other words license the print engine from Printwizard and combine it with *report to allow Fp to print to dumb windows printers.

As MS moves further away from the XP core, FP  will have more problems. 

I still would love to see a 64bit version of FP.

Richard Kreiss

-----Original Message-----
From: Nancy Palmquist <nlp at vss3.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 11:40 AM
To: filePro Mailing List <filepro-list at lists.celestial.com>
Subject: Windows7 Compatible for filePro

Guys,

I am wondering if anyone would suggest that filePro 5.6 is Windows 7 
compatible.  I can certainly install it and make it work on my Windows7 
computer.  I had to license it to the Drive ID, but it works.

My hesitation is in the area of printing.  I am seeing a real disconnect 
with the ability to print from filePro to the new printers available for 
new machines with Win7.

The newer printers seem to have PCL6 instead of PCL5.

If filepro would provide, out of the box, a proper way to handle 
printing on Windows, I think I would feel better about suggesting that 
my software - built under filepro - is windows 7 compatible.

Also, I have no good way to provide an installation CD for my MOS 
software that will properly install both the filePro runtime and my 
application.  I am still hung up on that licensing requirement that they 
download a file, instead of an interface that allows them to enter an 
activation code on the screen.  My customers are stuck on 5.0 for this 
application, because there is no way I can distribute an application and 
have the end user get a license file, supply a license file on a 
"diskette?" .

So to tell Microsoft that I have tested my application and it is Windows 
7 compatible has left me cold.  I don't think filePro has the features 
that would meet that level of functionality on Windows7.

BTW, I have been using Win7 since Jan and have found it nice.  I have 
even stopped turning around to use my Unix keyboard and have left 
AnzioWin sessions open in Win7.  It works great like that.  I have 
almost all the tools I need.  I still have to connect a USB faxmodem for 
faxing, but that was not urgent.

Nancy


-- 
Nancy Palmquist         MOS&  filePro Training Available
Virtual Software Systems    Web Based Training and Consulting
PHONE: (412) 835-9417           Web site:  http://www.vss3.com

_______________________________________________
Filepro-list mailing list
Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list


From fairlite at fairlite.com  Wed Mar 31 13:03:01 2010
From: fairlite at fairlite.com (Fairlight)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 16:03:01 -0400
Subject: Windows7 Compatible for filePro
In-Reply-To: <0L05004S3RKURV43@vms173013.mailsrvcs.net>;
	from rkreiss@verizon.net on Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 02:02:47PM -0400
References: <0L05004S3RKURV43@vms173013.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <20100331160301.A10108@iglou.com>

>From inside the gravity well of a singularity, Rkreiss at verizon.net] shouted:
> I still would love to see a 64bit version of FP.

I don't at all "get" this statement.  Why?  Because fP has built-in
hardwired limits on things that don't even reach 32bit values, as it is.

What do you figure you'd gain by having a 64bit fP?  The file size
limitations were already raised to 64bit levels, and that's the only
thing that makes much difference in fP.  I mean, c'mon, the maximum dummy
variable size is (32KB - 1 byte).  When you already have 64bit storage
limits on disk, what's the gain in recompiling fP as native 64bit when we
have all these wacky, [now] arbitrary, legacy internal limitations present?

If you think it'd run faster, you're more than likely incorrect.

mark->

From nlp at vss3.com  Wed Mar 31 13:18:34 2010
From: nlp at vss3.com (Nancy Palmquist)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 16:18:34 -0400
Subject: Windows7 Compatible for filePro
In-Reply-To: <20100331134640.A7073@iglou.com>
References: <4BB36CE1.6090005@vss3.com> <20100331134640.A7073@iglou.com>
Message-ID: <4BB3AE1A.5030905@vss3.com>

Mark,

Sorry for the top post, I have done that ever since John mentioned it 
was easier for him to follow with his reader.

I hate these words "compatible" or "certified" or "compliant", when they 
do not define what standard it meets.

I fight this all the time with the Medical stuff.  They want "electronic 
medical records", I have yet to find any definition for that anywhere.  
Each software developer defines it themselves.

I can help a customer make "electronic medical records" by having them 
scan documents, save them on an electronic drive, use adobe to attach a 
password (complying with the true chart standard for secure and 
unchanging.) I have done just this, which meets the "electronic medical 
records" basic definition.  I do not think it is entirely workable 
without some exchange mechanism for the Providers.

Currently I have embedded the filePro runtime into my installation which 
is built with Setup Factory.  (Tried Install Shield but found it too 
expensive and too complex to be useful.  Got my money back.)

My install is currently installing 5.0 - that was the last version I 
could install without getting a license file and all kinds of data from 
the customer to attach it to their system.

I have actually purchased 5.6 for almost all of my customers, but I have 
only installed a few on new clients.

Finally see my notes below.

On 3/31/2010 1:46 PM, Fairlight wrote:
> Simon--er, no...it was Nancy Palmquist--said:
>    
>> Guys,
>>
>> I am wondering if anyone would suggest that filePro 5.6 is Windows 7
>> compatible.  I can certainly install it and make it work on my Windows7
>> computer.  I had to license it to the Drive ID, but it works.
>>      
> Then technically, I'd say it's compatible.
>
> The reality is that I can't think of anything that fP does that's not
> compatible, unless Windows entirely stripped out the "DOS" type console, or
> changed the API to it.  If fP runs, the rest is pretty generic.  I've not
> seen the internals, but just by looking at what it does and doesn't do,
> there's nothing magical there that seems to rely on specific versions of
> any given OS, barring shared library version issues on linux.
>
>    
>> My hesitation is in the area of printing.  I am seeing a real disconnect
>> with the ability to print from filePro to the new printers available for
>> new machines with Win7.
>>
>> The newer printers seem to have PCL6 instead of PCL5.
>>      
> Try using PrintWizard from Rasmussen Software?
>
> PCL6 is not a Windows 7 thing, it's a printer industry thing.  Blame HP.
>
>    
>> If filepro would provide, out of the box, a proper way to handle
>> printing on Windows, I think I would feel better about suggesting that
>> my software - built under filepro - is windows 7 compatible.
>>      
> Luck on that.  :/  If it hasn't happened in the last half decade, I don't
> see it happening anytime soon, if ever.
>
>    
>> Also, I have no good way to provide an installation CD for my MOS
>> software that will properly install both the filePro runtime and my
>> application.  I am still hung up on that licensing requirement that they
>> download a file, instead of an interface that allows them to enter an
>> activation code on the screen.  My customers are stuck on 5.0 for this
>> application, because there is no way I can distribute an application and
>> have the end user get a license file, supply a license file on a
>> "diskette?" .
>>      
> -Assuming- that you don't mind an installer just copying files to their
> proper location, rather than doing a full, official "finish" each time,
> what about making an actual setup installer with something like InnoSetup,
> or NSIS?  You could make that install everything, both fP and the custom
> system you have.  Actually, you could have InnoSetup run "finish",
> technically speaking, but that seems like a Bad Idea[tm] to give the power
> to screw that up to a customer.
>
> As for the license...it just depends how you do it.  Do you get the license
> for them anyway and install it yourself, or do you have them go through the
> actual licensing step on the way?  Because if it's the latter, there's
> quite possibly a way to programmatically grab the required information and
> post it to the fP-Tech web site, then download the file.  It would involve
> writing an application to do so, however, and then having the installer run
> that program.  You'd just bundle it into the installer and have the
> installer run it as part of the install process--just like lots of programs
> run sub-installers for the Microsoft Visual C++ 2005 Runtime Executable
> Libraries, or DirectX.  Same principle, except this program needs to get
> data from the system and then grab the right stuff from fP-Tech.
>
> If you get the license for them yourself anyway, you could just copy the
> license file to the right spot in the distribution and recompile a new
> installer for each client.  That's the dead easy way of doing it.
>
>    
How is cutting a unique distribution for each customer "dead easy"?  I 
want to generate one installation CD, with the runtimes I need and my 
software.  During installation, I want a screen to popup that can ask 
for an Activation KEY for FilePro.   I want to be able to have a 
customer download the installation, and install it without trying to 
figure out the license file stuff they do now.  They keep telling me it 
is possible, but never get around to the function of it.  I really still 
think the license manager they added to control installations, has been 
the item that has most killed their business.  It has most radically 
affected the windows side of their business and driven many of my 
customer to other stuff, or to just sit at 5.0 until they die.

I have NEVER had an installation on Windows or Unix that worked right 
the first time.  If I am unable to install filePro, without problems, 
how can I expect a customer to do it?
So to tell Microsoft that I have tested my application and it is Windows

>> 7 compatible has left me cold.  I don't think filePro has the features
>> that would meet that level of functionality on Windows7.
>>      
> You're actually wanting to bother with Windows 7 certification?  I
> wouldn't.  I mean...let's face reality...  If the software works on the
> platform, it works on the platform.  Certification logos look great on a
> website that sells heavily consumer-oriented, commodity software (WinZip,
> Carbonite, Acronis, etc.).  Your software doesn't really fall into that
> category, though.  It's specialised.  So what's the point of certification,
> in reality?
>    
Tom told Microsoft he was testing it.  I am stuck dealing with the 
issue.  I am going to ignore them.


Nancy

-- 
Nancy Palmquist         MOS&  filePro Training Available
Virtual Software Systems    Web Based Training and Consulting
PHONE: (412) 835-9417           Web site:  http://www.vss3.com


From fairlite at fairlite.com  Wed Mar 31 14:17:48 2010
From: fairlite at fairlite.com (Fairlight)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 17:17:48 -0400
Subject: Windows7 Compatible for filePro
In-Reply-To: <4BB3AE1A.5030905@vss3.com>;
	from nlp@vss3.com on Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 04:18:34PM -0400
References: <4BB36CE1.6090005@vss3.com> <20100331134640.A7073@iglou.com>
	<4BB3AE1A.5030905@vss3.com>
Message-ID: <20100331171748.A17699@iglou.com>

At Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 04:18:34PM -0400 or thereabouts, 
suspect Nancy Palmquist was observed uttering:
> 
> I hate these words "compatible" or "certified" or "compliant", when they 
> do not define what standard it meets.

Usually it means, "The vendor wasted perfectly good money to have us tell
you what they could have told you themselves."

> Currently I have embedded the filePro runtime into my installation which 
> is built with Setup Factory.  (Tried Install Shield but found it too 
> expensive and too complex to be useful.  Got my money back.)

Well, I'm not familiar with Setup Factory, other than having heard the
name.  I personally use InnoSetup, and I haven't had a technical reason to
switch to NSIS, although I have it installed...just haven't had
time/inclination/need to make a switch.

InnoSetup is free, and if you use ISTool to build your scripts, it's dead
easy as well.  (I -highly- recommend using ISTool, unless you really like
pain.)

I've looked at InstallShield myself, and it's too expensive, period.
Nevermind complexity, the price is a non-starter for my needs.

> How is cutting a unique distribution for each customer "dead easy"?  I 
> want to generate one installation CD, with the runtimes I need and my 
> software.  During installation, I want a screen to popup that can ask 
> for an Activation KEY for FilePro.   I want to be able to have a 
> customer download the installation, and install it without trying to 
> figure out the license file stuff they do now.  They keep telling me it 
> is possible, but never get around to the function of it.  I really still 
> think the license manager they added to control installations, has been 
> the item that has most killed their business.  It has most radically 
> affected the windows side of their business and driven many of my 
> customer to other stuff, or to just sit at 5.0 until they die.

It's dead easy because if you didn't just want -one- CD, you could set up a
project in InnoSetup, and just replace the actual license file in the
source location, fire up ISTool, and hit F9 to recompile the setup
installer.  :)

What you want could probably be done in Perl/Tk.  I've found a mechanism
for obtaining the physical drive serial numbers in perl.  One could use Tk
for the GUI to ask for username/password, and any other information that
needs to be submitted.

Which leaves the wildcard in this scenario the session handling with their
web site.  I remember you have to log in to obtain the license, so there's
some login mechanism that needs to be addressed.  Posting that data is
trivial, but I never had cause to look at their sessioning mechanics after
that point.  In theory, you just fake their sessioning once you post the
login info and get the reply, post the relevant drive serial and whatever
else is necessary, and then download the file from the link obtained on the
resultant page (assuming the topography hasn't changed).

So essentially you'd just need to have whatever setup tool you use install
all files, then run a program that will pop a window that shows the serial
and asks for whatever other information, and then deals with fP-Tech's web
site and obtain the license file, writing it to the appropriate location.

It's all 99.9% likely doable, but obviously not for free.  :)  And one
would need an account on the fP-Tech web site to actually test this
mechanism and do development against it.  You know...actually, fP-Tech
-should- include software that does this themselves.  Most other companies
make hardware-bound online registration seamless in this day and age.  I
was just thinking about writing this, and I got to the point where I said,
"Wait a second, why the hell don't -they- provide this already?"

As for the license manager, I know people that refuse to move to 5.0.15,
much less 5.6, purely due to that exact fiasco.  I mean, many in the
community said it was a bad idea, but they did it anyway.  Be it on their
own heads.

Except it won't be purely on their own heads.  What happens if the company
(or its website) goes away, and a legitimate licensee needs to reinstall on
new hardware?  They're pretty screwed, unless provisions are made for that
possibility in advance.  At least you're more or less confident that
Microsoft and Adobe aren't going anywhere, ya know?

> I have NEVER had an installation on Windows or Unix that worked right 
> the first time.  If I am unable to install filePro, without problems, 
> how can I expect a customer to do it?

I've never tried it myself on Windows.  I've done multiple *nix ones
without flaw...well, if you don't count the installation process itself as
one giant flaw.  :)  Bill Campbell recently outlined everything that's
wrong with the install process quite eloquently.

> Tom told Microsoft he was testing it.  I am stuck dealing with the 
> issue.  I am going to ignore them.

I think Tom made a mistake, and your stance seems wise.  :)

mark->
-- 
Audio panton, cogito singularis,

From kenwhite at verizon.net  Wed Mar 31 14:18:53 2010
From: kenwhite at verizon.net (ken white)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 17:18:53 -0400
Subject: ADV: SCO/filePro system for sale...
In-Reply-To: <201003310422.o2V4MlMn002998@admin114.securesites.net>
References: <201003310422.o2V4MlMn002998@admin114.securesites.net>
Message-ID: <1C6D8C49046B4BB889355983076B34DA@Dpc9150>

Top posted:

Purchase it quickly,  SCO lost their copyright case against Novell in a jury 
trial yesterday.  They (never had) have no leg to stand on for suing 
companies based on copyright infringement, they do not own the copyrights to 
Unix.   I think the end is near.

McBride should be ashamed of himself.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "John Esak" <john at valar.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 12:22 AM
To: <filepro-list at lists.celestial.com>
Subject: ADV: SCO/filePro system for sale...

>
> Hi,
>
> I have a 300Gb SATA 2.0 drive with a SCO 5.7 5-user license and a licensed
> DevSys loaded on it. There is also a 15-user filePro 5.6 system with 
> Fpxfer
> loaded, and a 15 user FacetWin license loaded as well.  With this hard 
> drive
> goes an Intel Pro 1000 1Gb NIC, a 256Gb DDR-2 memory stick, and a *NEW* 
> Sony
> SDT-11000 DDS-4 DAT tape drive.
>
> I believe all three licenses can be transferred legally since they are
> staying on their original drive and network card.
>
> I will be putting these main components together with a case and 
> motherboard
> specified by the buyer.  If no one buys this stuff, I will put it into a
> small mini-tower case with a motherboard that has a2.4Gb Core II Duo chip.
> It will go on my shelf as a super spare server for any of the myriad 
> clients
> I have out there who will one day need such a thing.  How do I know 
> someone
> will one day need it?  Believe me, I just know. I've done dozens of 
> upgrades
> from old systems to new ones like this.... It's just that they have 
> usually
> been done under the duress of a crashed old machine.
>
> For a forward thinking person, though, this could be a ready to go upgrade
> that will smoothly replace a system you currently rely on now, but are
> getting worried about. Perhaps, the tape drive is old, or the whole system
> is old. The SCSI hard drives we used to buy lasted far longer than the 5
> years they were warranted for and now are probably going on 10 years if 
> you
> upgraded around the 2k scare.  Moving your users, filePro and other apps 
> to
> this new box while you are comfortably working instead of trying to do it 
> in
> the aftermath of a serious system stopping crash would be so much more
> comfortable and profitable, wouldn't it?  For whoever buys this unit, I 
> can
> be cajoled into helping with the transfer and upgrade as well, however,
> there is a substantial charge for this since that is the last thing I want
> to do these days.  I think I would charge $1k for taking responsibility 
> for
> the transfer/upgrade and making sure everything works properly on the new
> system.
>
> I want  only $2,500 for the main pieces all put into a fully working box
> with a brand new motherboard. That's the licenses, the hard drive the
> motherboard, memory and tape machine. An extra $1.500 would get me for a 
> day
> as well. If you are in the NYC area, I would come to your place for a day
> (preferably a Sunday (and possibly adding Saturday as well... Depending on
> the size/complexity of your existing system). Doing it on a weekend 
> usually
> ensures that the transfer/upgrade doesn't interfere with your working
> system, and the transfer is smooth and unnoticed by your users.  It could 
> be
> a situation where you are working the next day (Monday).  If you are far
> away from Harrisburg, I would have to have net access to your old system 
> to
> do the work. My feeling is that a weekend will easily allow enough time 
> for
> the changeover to the new system. I need to be allowed to work through the
> night. You do not have to stay up with me... :-)
>
> This is a deal in two completely different ways. A completed box with what
> it has in it is worth far more than $2,500.  So, just by itself it's a 
> deal,
> and for technically minded administrators who have done this kind of 
> upgrade
> before, this is a very inexpensive way to move to a new machine with new
> licenses... While *keeping* your old system and its licenses. Actually, 
> I'm
> hoping this is the kind of sale I make for this system. I hate
> responsibility and work these days. :-)
>
> If my talents (??) are purchased to manage the transfer/upgrade from your
> old Unix box to this new one, then that also is a great deal. Why?
> Well, $1.5k for my guarantee that everything will work fine on the new
> system whether it takes me 1 or 2 days ... Is a really good deal since I
> don't usually work for any amount of money these days. :-)  For a small
> operation, mom and pop business, perhaps, without a Unix guru on hand, 
> this
> kind of an upgrade would be virtually impossible. So, in order to make the
> sale, and to offer this good stuff to the widest audience here on the 
> list,
> I will do the transfer/upgrade for the $1.5k.  I will not make this offer 
> to
> anyone who buys the unit off eBay. I will be posting it on eBay as a
> complete box for a starting price of $2.5k Saturday (April 10th) if no one
> on the mailing list takes advantage of it before then.
>
> Now, there are a few serious caveats to this otherwise staggeringly
> well-priced deal.  Whether you buy my services in conjunction with the
> hardware or not, you need to be well aware of these things. Mostly they 
> deal
> with my participation if I'm retained to do the transfer.
>
> 1.
> The SCO license is only 5 user. So, you would need to access the system
> through only 5 legacy type terminals or the console, and the rest of the 
> 15
> users would need to use the FacetWin license... Meaning any PC can login 
> and
> use the SCO and filePro without problem. Any serial printers in your 
> system,
> you need to count them up and be sure the whole legacy SCO access does not
> exceed 5 users. Network printers and FacetWin printers do not tick the
> license count. (Or, of course you can purchase a user bump from wherever 
> one
> gets such a thing these days.)
>
> 2.
> For any applications other than filePro which you want to work on the new
> system, you must have a movable license for them. Also, the operation of
> said application must be totally your concern and worry.  With the
> exception, perhaps, of WordPerfect (and even Scripsit I suppose) there
> aren't many applications I can make work without problem... And even those
> two are a little iffy. :-)  Basically, I know my limitations, I can handle
> anything that comes up related to SCO and related to filePro, and related 
> to
> FacetWin. I can move all O/S based scripting and PATH things correctly to
> work on the new system.  All else will have to be your concern.  I will
> help, but I can't be the final guarantor of anything outside the three
> programs, SCO, filePro, FacetWin. (AnzioWin and PrintWizard will work on 
> the
> new system with no problem, and maybe one or two others... But I'm not 
> going
> to count on anything other than the big 3, SCO, filePro and FacetWin.)
>
> 3.
> For the time I'm working on the transfer, I will need root privileges on 
> the
> old and new Unix box, as well as Administrator privileges on any PC that
> needs to connect with the Unix box through FacetWin. If my help is 
> purchased
> for the transfer/upgrade, I will help set up old Facetwin shares, and
> printers.
>
> 4.
> If I can not be physically "on-site" to do the transfer, I will need a
> reasonably "technically competent" person to assist me at various points
> during the upgrade. For example, if for some reason a network connection 
> can
> not be established with the old box to move the user data to the new
> machine, then I would need to have the assistant attach the Sony DAT drive
> to the old machine so backups can be made.  The, it would need to be moved
> to the new machine.  Other physical help may be needed from time to time 
> if
> I can not be on site.
>
> 5.
> Any work done on the GUI side of the SCO 5.6 can not be supported by me.
> Should you need to work on a scologin screen, you must set this up 
> yourself.
> I will put a working GUI on one of the 12 console logins and you must take
> it from there. (Sorry, like I say, I know my limitations.)
>
> 6. If more than 5 users are going to be accessing this system
> simultaneously, I suggest that another 256Gb memory stick be installed in
> the unit for at least 1Gb of memory.
>
> 7.
> I must suggest that whoever buys this system from me, obtains a new
> BackupEDGE support contract for this box.  It already has a licensed copy 
> of
> BackupEDGE loaded on it, and this may be transferable, I'm not sure at the
> writing of this message. I will find out shortly and post the answer.  If 
> it
> can be transferred, great, you get it as part of the price of the unit. If
> it can't, you really should buy a license so the machine can be backed up
> securely and often.
>
> 8.
> At some point, the purchaser of my services will have to "release" me from
> service.  I suggest that this will happen when a full backup tape of the 
> new
> machine is made in a completely working state. By working state, I mean 
> viz
> the terms above... SCO, filePro, FacetWin... Some standard extras like
> AnzioWin and PrintWizard, etc.  The network will function. You will have
> access to the net or not from the Unix box as desired.
>
> 9.
> There may be some things I've forgotten. Nothing major.  If my services 
> are
> purchased as well as the hardware and licenses, I may require that a 
> simple
> written contract that states essentially what I've listed here be signed
> between us.  I am usually not so careful, but since I am retired, I do not
> want anything to be taken for granted after the buyer is satisfied with 
> the
> initial transfer/upgrade.
>
> 10.  Remember, this system goes on eBay next week (April 10th). If you're
> interested, contact me soon.
>
> John Esak
> john at valar.com (put SCO system in the subject...)
> (717) 889-4689
>
> _______________________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing list
> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
> 

From kenbrody at spamcop.net  Wed Mar 31 16:55:01 2010
From: kenbrody at spamcop.net (Kenneth Brody)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 19:55:01 -0400
Subject: PRINTER type and PRINTER name
In-Reply-To: <4BB3650D.4030907@comcast.net>
References: <4BB3650D.4030907@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4BB3E0D5.4010204@spamcop.net>

On 3/31/2010 11:06 AM, Nancy Palmquist wrote:
> I am posting this because it needs to be documented for others.
[...]
> printer type (my_prttype{"")
> printer name (my_prtname{"")
>
> We were getting the wrong print codes.  Not the ones I issued in the
> PRINTER TYPE command, but the table associated with the printer name. It
> is easy to tell you this now but it took a bunch of paper and testing to
> narrow down what was going wrong.  Our projects started trying to print
> to an envelop bin in a funny font.
>
> Well my solution was simple, reverse the commands so it assigns the
> PRINTER TYPE after the PRINTER NAME.
[...]

PRINTER NAME looks up the printer by its name, and then sets both the type 
and destination.  (Remember, in pmaint, you have associated both a type and 
destination to the printer name.)

-- 
Kenneth Brody

From kenbrody at spamcop.net  Wed Mar 31 19:19:02 2010
From: kenbrody at spamcop.net (Kenneth Brody)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 22:19:02 -0400
Subject: Windows7 Compatible for filePro
In-Reply-To: <4BB36CE1.6090005@vss3.com>
References: <4BB36CE1.6090005@vss3.com>
Message-ID: <4BB40296.6080900@spamcop.net>

On 3/31/2010 11:40 AM, Nancy Palmquist wrote:
> Guys,
>
> I am wondering if anyone would suggest that filePro 5.6 is Windows 7
> compatible.  I can certainly install it and make it work on my Windows7
> computer.  I had to license it to the Drive ID, but it works.

Yes, I am running filePro 5.6 (as well as numerous older versions) on my 
Windows 7 box.  The only version I can't run are the old 16-bit real-mode 
MS-DOS version.  (And the error message implies that it's because I'm on the 
64-bit version of Windows.)

> My hesitation is in the area of printing.  I am seeing a real disconnect
> with the ability to print from filePro to the new printers available for
> new machines with Win7.
>
> The newer printers seem to have PCL6 instead of PCL5.

As mentioned elsethread, this is a printer issue, not a Windows issue.

> If filepro would provide, out of the box, a proper way to handle
> printing on Windows, I think I would feel better about suggesting that
> my software - built under filepro - is windows 7 compatible.

filePro does work out of the box with Windows printing.  The problem with 
PCL6 is that it's related to the rest of the PCL series in name only. 
filePro can print to pretty much any printer which supports "RAW" mode 
printer output and can actually print things more than images.

Now, if you mean filePro should support GDI printing, you have to realize 
that that means basically eliminating print codes.

[...]
> So to tell Microsoft that I have tested my application and it is Windows
> 7 compatible has left me cold.  I don't think filePro has the features
> that would meet that level of functionality on Windows7.

What does "Windows 7 compatible" mean in this case?  filePro is a true 
32-bit Windows console application.

[...]

-- 
Kenneth Brody

From rkreiss at verizon.net  Wed Mar 31 21:15:20 2010
From: rkreiss at verizon.net (Rkreiss@verizon.net])
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2010 00:15:20 -0400
Subject: Windows7 Compatible for filePro
Message-ID: <0L0600MUZJTJJBB1@vms173019.mailsrvcs.net>



-----Original Message-----
From: Kenneth Brody <kenbrody at spamcop.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 10:19 PM
To: Nancy Palmquist <nlp at vss3.com>
Cc: filePro Mailing List <filepro-list at lists.celestial.com>
Subject: Re: Windows7 Compatible for filePro

On 3/31/2010 11:40 AM, Nancy Palmquist wrote:
> Guys,
>
> I am wondering if anyone would suggest that filePro 5.6 is Windows 7
> compatible.  I can certainly install it and make it work on my Windows7
> computer.  I had to license it to the Drive ID, but it works.

Yes, I am running filePro 5.6 (as well as numerous older versions) on my 
Windows 7 box.  The only version I can't run are the old 16-bit real-mode 
MS-DOS version.  (And the error message implies that it's because I'm on the 
64-bit version of Windows.)

> My hesitation is in the area of printing.  I am seeing a real disconnect
> with the ability to print from filePro to the new printers available for
> new machines with Win7.
>
> The newer printers seem to have PCL6 instead of PCL5.

As mentioned elsethread, this is a printer issue, not a Windows issue.

> If filepro would provide, out of the box, a proper way to handle
> printing on Windows, I think I would feel better about suggesting that
> my software - built under filepro - is windows 7 compatible.

filePro does work out of the box with Windows printing.  The problem with 
PCL6 is that it's related to the rest of the PCL series in name only. 
filePro can print to pretty much any printer which supports "RAW" mode 
printer output and can actually print things more than images.

Now, if you mean filePro should support GDI printing, you have to realize 
that that means basically eliminating print codes.

Ken,

This is why is suugest using something like the Printwiz engine to translate pcl to a markup language that these dumb printers understand.

Now this begs the question if this can be done in one program from FPtech or remains needing to use 2 output programs.

Richard Kreiss
>From phone
[...]
> So to tell Microsoft that I have tested my application and it is Windows
> 7 compatible has left me cold.  I don't think filePro has the features
> that would meet that level of functionality on Windows7.

What does "Windows 7 compatible" mean in this case?  filePro is a true 
32-bit Windows console application.

[...]

-- 
Kenneth Brody
_______________________________________________
Filepro-list mailing list
Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list